tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post5455472302048586667..comments2024-03-28T14:15:25.583-04:00Comments on SafeLibraries®: Look For the Union Label at the ALASafeLibraries®http://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-77725209081446120482011-02-27T14:03:22.910-05:002011-02-27T14:03:22.910-05:00"Facts Overshadowed by Rhetoric As Debate Ove..."<a href="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WISCONSIN_BUDGET_THE_DEBATE?SITE=WIMIL&SECTION=BUSINESS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT" rel="nofollow">Facts Overshadowed by Rhetoric As Debate Over Union Rights Bill in Wisconsin Forges Ahead</a>," by <b>Scott Bauer and Patrick Condon</b>, <i>Associated Press</i>, 26 February 2011.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-87158758801076365442011-02-27T13:55:31.560-05:002011-02-27T13:55:31.560-05:00Okay, I see you have a rational basis for your per...Okay, I see you have a rational basis for your personal attacks on the governor.<br /><br />As to "stupid," I see you think he is stupid for taking a prank call. That may be your judgment but I would need to see more evidence before I'll agree he is stupid. I do know "social engineering" is used all the time and is often successful in causing trouble. I do not think all the victims of social engineering are stupid. Even if they were, it would still be wrong to call them stupid. I hope you are never the victim of social engineering.<br /><br />As to PolitiFact, I see they are accurate, but they are extremely nitpicky, and I have to wonder if they were nitpicky or even bothered to review statements like Nancy Pelosi saying the "healthcare" bill will have to pass first for people to know what was in it. <br /><br />In the governor's case, they said, "There is no dispute that Walker campaigned on getting concessions on health and pension benefits from state employees. And, to be sure, that is an important part of the measure." The nitpicky part is that they called him on not advising directly about the bargaining changes. Okay, that's fair, but it's nitpicky. If I heard there would be "concessions on health and pension benefits from state employees," I would assume that would be mean everything that goes along with that, not some single aspect.<br /><br />So, I see why you are calling him a liar, but it's really a word game that must be played to make that the truth.<br /><br />Your link from Center for Media and Democracy is not credible. Neither is Common Cause of Wisconsin.<br /><br />Be that as it may, this is not a forum for attacking people. Please take your attacks, even if rationally based, elsewhere.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-51913496428864097142011-02-27T13:38:33.003-05:002011-02-27T13:38:33.003-05:00Oh. I see. Google stopped them. I'll go mar...Oh. I see. Google stopped them. I'll go mark it as not spam now.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-60246053068659156202011-02-27T13:37:52.101-05:002011-02-27T13:37:52.101-05:00Hey! You didn't give me a chance to read the ...Hey! You didn't give me a chance to read the links. Wait before unloading, please.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-3966005690090930862011-02-27T13:36:53.757-05:002011-02-27T13:36:53.757-05:00Didn't like the links? Too many facts? Oh wait...Didn't like the links? Too many facts? Oh wait, is it because I called his behavior what it actually is?<br /><br />Its a bit convenient, and self-serving to your points, what you choose to keep and what you choose to delete.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-44322804176633310692011-02-27T13:28:05.869-05:002011-02-27T13:28:05.869-05:00Walker as Liar - first by not revealing the plan, ...<a href="http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/" rel="nofollow">Walker as Liar</a> - first by not revealing the plan, then lying that he was transparent about his plan's motives. The facts are against his claims. <a href="http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/24/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-his-remarks-during/" rel="nofollow">more lies</a><br /><br />Second, <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116737394.html" rel="nofollow">STUPID</a>. Why he would have engaged in such blantant and frank discussion with someone who simply claimed to be his wealthy rainmaker is, simply, idiotic.<br /><br />Third, Gov. Walker is in the pocket of big business. <a href="http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/02/9964/cmd-special-report-scott-walker-runs-koch-money" rel="nofollow">here.</a> and <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/business/116965798.html" rel="nofollow">here.</a><br /><br />Sorry no fox news blogs included.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-51689322591655709952011-02-27T12:57:10.142-05:002011-02-27T12:57:10.142-05:00Oh my. More personal attacks, this time more abou...Oh my. More personal attacks, this time more about the Wisconsin governor, before he was "stupid," now he's "corrupt and maliciously doctrinaire," then wandering into conspiracyville when attacking still others.<br /><br />John, you realize this is a blog about the American Library Association, right? <br /><br />"Educating people and politicians about who controls public libraries. Citizens should, not the American Library Association. If your local library is applying ALA policy instead of local law/policy, learn from this blog what can be done to reverse that."<br /><br />May I ask you to please take your diatribes somewhere else? I don't see that your comments or my responses really accomplishes that much. We both have other things to do, do we not?<br /><br />While I am writing, let's look at the ABC News 10 story that was the top link in the <i>BigGovernment</i> story you derided:<br /><br />"An amateur videographer caught a shoving match on tape. The video showed a face to face argument right before Richard Andazola, 28, of Stockton, shoved a tea party activist.<br /><br />"'He bum rushed across the street, came right at us, swung his bullhorn at me, hit me in the hand and then put his hand around my throat and started choking me,' Rodney Stanhope of Placerville said.<br /><br />"The video doesn't show the choking incident, but clearly shows the shoving. Because of it, Sacramento Police officers cited Andazola for battery.<br /><br />"Andazola tells a different story though.<br /><br />"'He was spitting on me, he's bigger than me, and I told him to get off of me,' Andazola said. 'I was backing up and he was staying on me 'til the point that he spit in my mouth.'<br /><br />"That incident was the only one that occured. The rest of the demonstration fizzled out with arguments yelled across 10th Street."<br /><br />Then, John, you topped it off with, "Given Gov. Walker, himself, admits to thinking about setting loose a group of agitators to stir up trouble and make the Union protesters look violent." Wonderful! And no citation, as is your style. You understand Saul Alinsky's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals" rel="nofollow">Rules for Radicals</a> perfectly! Coincidence?SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-33281542016269311892011-02-27T12:43:16.728-05:002011-02-27T12:43:16.728-05:00Also, I am not sure what Scaramento has to do with...Also, I am not sure what Scaramento has to do with the Union busting activities of a corrupt and maliciously doctrinaire Governor in the pocket of greedy WI business men, but I suppose in the myopic world view of this blog it seems relevant. <br /><br />Plus, given the tea party's use of ridiculously costumed undercover agent provocateurs - like James O'Keefe - who is to say Richard Andazola did not steal that jacket from a union hall just to provoke and fight? My guess is that he was working with the filmmakers to discredit the Teamsters. <br /><br />Given Gov. Walker, himself, admits to thinking about setting loose a group of agitators to stir up trouble and make the Union protesters look violent.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-9498937833056651842011-02-27T12:38:01.560-05:002011-02-27T12:38:01.560-05:00Funny, but Juan Williams said something honest and...Funny, but Juan Williams said something <a href="http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/01/07/132708700/review-of-juan-wiliams-firing-completed-npr-senior-vp-for-news-resigns" rel="nofollow">honest and innocent, and with great sensitivity</a>. That is the complete opposite of what happened here. <br /><br />If you can abide by the simple rules, namely, "Comments of a personal nature and linkspam may be removed," then you may continue to contribute.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-20506960370009550432011-02-27T12:25:33.611-05:002011-02-27T12:25:33.611-05:00I feel like Juan Williams at NPR.I feel like Juan Williams at NPR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-78847577563602815292011-02-27T09:21:20.090-05:002011-02-27T09:21:20.090-05:00"Union Member Attacks, Injures Tea Party Acti..."<a href="http://biggovernment.com/cdevore/2011/02/26/breaking-union-member-attacks-injures-tea-party-activist-at-moveon-org-organized-rally/" rel="nofollow">Union Member Attacks, Injures Tea Party Activist at MoveOn.org-organized Rally</a>," by <b>Chuck DeVore</b>, <i>BigGovernment</i>, 26 February 2011.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-35826890836171917162011-02-27T07:30:38.384-05:002011-02-27T07:30:38.384-05:00When one leaves a comment on my blog posts, right ...When one leaves a comment on my blog posts, right at the top it says, "Comments of a personal nature and linkspam may be removed." I let him go on attacking people for a while, then I finally applied the policy with which everyone must apply. <br /><br />You see, this is a forum for discussing ideas, When it devolves into name calling, then it just becomes a waste of time. It has nothing to do with "censorship"--it's about selection. <br /><br />Your comments, for example, add nothing of any substance. I will selectively leave them in, however, to further evidence the likes of you as this is what the ALA implicitly supports: "The next election you won't be so happy or so victorious and the left won't have to lift a finger. Watch your world crumble before your eyes."SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-38211190163747225432011-02-27T05:49:00.486-05:002011-02-27T05:49:00.486-05:00Ah, another conservative censor in operation. When...Ah, another conservative censor in operation. When the going gets too tough, out comes the muzzle against the opponents (the chap censored above).<br /><br />It's actually amusing.<br /><br />Especially as it done in the cause of defending yourself against alleged 'ad hominem' attacks. The AH defense is the oldest and most predictable term in the crap bloggers repertoire. You roll out your sweeping generalizations about union protesters (they're all thugs, racists etc), and then you have the temerity to bitch about others making generalizations about you and your side.<br /><br />You're just another conservative hypocrite who runs for cover every time the going gets too tough.<br /><br />As I say, amusing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-51210843878456069602011-02-27T01:47:44.444-05:002011-02-27T01:47:44.444-05:00Heheheh... SafeLibraries, I believe it is you who ...Heheheh... SafeLibraries, I believe it is you who called the people of Wisconsin those things. Shame on you. I will grant you that it is your right to live a deluded life devoid of any connection to public libraries. You obviously don't have a clue what it is like to work in both union and non-union library environments. There are benefits and drawbacks to both as I've worked in a few libraries and seen what happens.<br /><br />Congratulations to the right on their victory. I'm perfectly happy to shrug like Atlas and let all of you destroy America as you are so willing to do. The next election you won't be so happy or so victorious and the left won't have to lift a finger. Watch your world crumble before your eyes. Have a nice day. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-30144798486281545902011-02-27T01:19:53.892-05:002011-02-27T01:19:53.892-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-63670090419739635082011-02-27T00:58:13.436-05:002011-02-27T00:58:13.436-05:00Okay. Clearly you are here to divert from the iss...Okay. Clearly you are here to divert from the issues by making <i>ad hominem</i> arguments, among other things, like your complaint about my "rhetoric."<br /><br />I did not appreciate your attack on the Wisconsin Governor where you talked about "Walker's demands for slashed benefits prior to his stupid and unnecessary malicious political calculation to eliminate collective bargaining." So you called him "stupid," "calculating," and "malicious." Since he ran on the platform of rolling back union power and won, that means you also called the people of Wisconsin stupid, calculating, and malicious.<br /><br />Your comments here never vary from being personal attacks or from diverting from the issues. You are no longer welcome to comment on my blog if your comments contain personal attacks, no matter how careful you may word them. I will remove any more of your comments if they contain personal attacks. <br /><br />Lastly, the comments section is to discuss the issues, not to provide a forum for attacking me, my commenters, and the people I discuss in my blog posts. I simply am not playing your game any longer.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-85176493477960307662011-02-27T00:35:04.718-05:002011-02-27T00:35:04.718-05:00If you can ask those questions with out the conser...If you can ask those questions with out the conservative talking point rhetoric that clearly muddies the waters, I will be happy to answer your questions.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-79812002291039637102011-02-26T23:56:45.082-05:002011-02-26T23:56:45.082-05:00Okay, clear up the waters. Explain how the ALA is...Okay, clear up the waters. Explain how the ALA is right to support union thugs seeking unsustainable benefits. Then explain how an organization that promotes the undemocratic activities of public unions is supposed to be considered authoritative in local community libraries. And provide reliable sources to back up your claims.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-5750563662257467172011-02-26T23:42:19.264-05:002011-02-26T23:42:19.264-05:00Anon 2 - First of all, that supposed attack has no...Anon 2 - First of all, that supposed attack has nothing to do with the point we were talking about. But thanks for trying to further muddy the waters with unrelated and silly information.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-2034835360766209312011-02-26T19:07:38.957-05:002011-02-26T19:07:38.957-05:00I'm another anon and I'm responding to xer...I'm another anon and I'm responding to xerxes. <br /><br />This blog provided a number of examples of union thugs evidencing "bullying" at a minimum. It even included a picture of that 5" 1' girl Tabitha Hale assaulted by that CWA thug. Also a link to her blog describing the assault. Can you believe that big man attacked that little girl? And she was just standing there taking pictures like everyone does! <br /><br />Yet xerxes didn't see any of that. Instead he says, "There is no evidence of bullying. They are hardly goons, as they are teachers and police men and secretaries and security guards. But its okay if you want to make up stories about it."<br /><br />Xerxes doesn't get to make up his own facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-12555500418019593932011-02-26T17:46:05.815-05:002011-02-26T17:46:05.815-05:00Anon - There is no evidence of bullying. They are ...Anon - There is no evidence of bullying. They are hardly goons, as they are teachers and police men and secretaries and security guards. <br /><br />But its okay if you want to make up stories about it. There is a whole section in public libraries staffed by municipal employees, most of them union, who will be happy to shelve your novel.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-14324750120507434652011-02-26T17:35:41.988-05:002011-02-26T17:35:41.988-05:00John Xerxes...Walker has all the rights in the wor...John Xerxes...Walker has all the rights in the world to move for removal of the collective bargaining rights from the union. The union that used these rights for decades to bully municipalities into outrageous taxes and brankrupt budgets will only use them again and again if not stopped right now. Walker is bringing fiscal sanity to state and local budgets of Wisconsin because Wisconsin TAXPAYERS DEMAND it! It's that simple, deny it all you want. The unions lost the elections they tried to buy and now they are using threats and violence to achieve for a small obnoxious minority what the state majority want removed. This is NOT a Banana Republic and the unions are now being seen for the greedy goons they truly are. Taxpayers no longer support them. Get a life!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-13140545753216934432011-02-26T10:45:40.768-05:002011-02-26T10:45:40.768-05:00You are completely wrong about most of your points...You are completely wrong about most of your points. <br /><br />Public Libraries are public institutions. The ALA is right to stand with its members.<br /><br />Attacking collective bargaining has nothing to do with balancing a budget. <br /><br />Plus why should Unions apologize for negotiating better benefits? Even though they did agree to meet all of Walker's demands for slashed benefits prior to his stupid and unnecessary malicious political calculation to eliminate collective bargaining. <br /><br />research Walker's tax cuts and his security fiasco. Or better yet, ask your local public librarian to do it for you, while they are still able to work.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-8264182402679020012011-02-26T08:42:09.359-05:002011-02-26T08:42:09.359-05:00john xerxes, thanks for commenting. The facts are...john xerxes, thanks for commenting. The facts are that the Governor of Wisconsin ran his campaign on, among other things, rolling back the power of the public unions that now how the power to vacuum up almost 75% of every tax payment. He won on that basis. Elections have consequences. Now the unions are trying to reverse their election losses by hook or by crook, literally, and the American Library Association has linked arms with the unions.<br /><br />Further, even if a few public librarians would personally benefit from the ALA's support for unions using brute force and undemocratic activity to reverse an election they lost despite millions of dollars of money from taxpayers used to win the election, that still ignores the large majority of librarians not in public unions who will not benefit from undemocratic revolution or from the bankrupting of the state or from continuing to pay a huge percentage of their taxes for public unions to use to elect their own bosses who will then vote them more money.<br /><br />So the ALA had a few librarians on one side and most librarians on the other yet chose to join those supporting undemocratic, racist, homophobic, and brute force activity. And that is totally consistent with the other non-library issues it imposes itself upon. And that is totally relevant to whether people in local communities should allow the ALA to continue to control their own public libraries.<br /><br />Lastly, when you make personal attacks such as by implying I choose links that have no facts, then you illustrate you have no substantive argument and must rely instead on <i>ad hominem</i> argument. And you are the second commenter in a row to do so.<br /><br />Actually, not only are your arguments without substance, but they are false. For example, you talk about "budgetary attacks on organized labor." First, the issue is public unions, not private unions. Second, this is not an "organized attack." Rather, this is the result of an open and fair election, and even one the public unions used their millions to sway but to no avail.<br /><br />The ALA really looks bad for siding with the public unions on this non-library issue. There is nothing you could say to change that.SafeLibraries®https://www.blogger.com/profile/06756725065032196698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5060593324936581367.post-66065341610572876462011-02-26T02:08:51.050-05:002011-02-26T02:08:51.050-05:00Most public libraries are considered in these unne...Most public libraries are considered in these unnecessary and completely unrelated to budgetary attacks on organized labor. In other words, PUBLIC librarians are in government employee or public employees systems and therefore fall under the purview of this issue.<br /><br />but as your links imply, there is not much use for facts on this blog.john xerxeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179547923690665987noreply@blogger.com