The American Library Association detailed how it controls communities and legislators nationwide. It is so successful in doing so that it is now saying the quiet part out loud, only to other librarians. I just happen to have made a transcript of these speeches so the deep deceptions are exposed.
Here's a transcript and a 60 minute video of ALA President Emily Drabinski and ALA Interim Executive Director Leslie Burger (a former ALA President) saying the quiet part out loud, on March 19, 2024, at an ALA Town Hall meeting for members only:
I've included the videos in full so nothing is taken out of context. Below are both transcripts just to make them easier to search on the same page, because the admissions against interest are numerous. It's almost sad to think how ALA is shrinking, they had to move out of a larger building and can no longer afford certain librarian conferences for example, but then ask yourselves why less than 50K members control so much of American libraries. That's a mere 1000 ALA members per state, yet the "community organizing," as they put it, beats out unorganized parents and legislators almost every time. Hopefully these transcripts will start waking people up.
They discuss parent groups like Moms for Library they also call "Moms for Whatever." Then they discuss how they will speak with everyone, followed by saying Moms for Liberty are "fives" so they will not speak with them.
Just to show the effect ALA astroturfing as described in the transcripts has on communities and legislatures, here is Amanda Jones gloating about the 44,000 emails ALA helped raise to supposedly defeat legislation. And she thanks @EveryLibrary (crypto ALA), @UABookBans (ALA), @LAofSL (she's the president or past president), @10000WomenLa (has 577 followers, not 44,000), @LACitAntiCensor (ALA astroturf), @LALibraryAllies (ALA astroturf in one of the areas Emily Drabinski discusses in the transcript).
She even thanked Emily Drabinski for her Chicago Illinois ALA intervention in Louisiana business, then cast her as the victim:
But when some legislation was successfully passed, suddenly she claims the legislature didn't listen to all the emails that can be traced to Chicago's ALA, says it's a "slap in the face." Chicago's ALA is outright bragging about the success of its community organizing efforts to, among other things, control state legislatures, and if legislators don't vote the way ALA wants, it's a "slap in the face" to everyone who astroturfed for ALA:
So read the transcripts below to see the quiet part out loud on how ALA controls communities nationwide:
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (00:06):
Welcome. The session will begin shortly. Closed captioning is available. To follow closed captioning embedded in the Zoom platform you can click on the closed caption on the bottom of your screen. This meeting is being recorded and will be posted in the ALA member community on ALA Connect. Attendees will remain virtually muted and the chat feature will not be available. You may type your questions into [00:00:30] the Q&A box, which will be read by ALA staff. I would like to remind everyone of our statement of appropriate conduct. The American Library Association holds professional conferences and meetings to enable its members to receive continuing education, build professional networks, and discover new products and services for professional use. ALA is committed to providing a safe, productive, and welcoming environment for all mem, all, meeting participants and ALA staff. ALA has zero tolerance for any [00:01:00] form of discrimination or harassment. Thank you. I will now turn things over to ALA President Emily Drabinski to begin the session.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (01:09):
Thank you Tina and thank you to ALA staff for your support for this member town hall. Welcome everyone. I want to thank you for your ALA membership and for attending the conversation today. It's good to see the participant number ticking up and the interest and engagement with the association at this time is exciting I think for all of us. I am an associate [00:01:30] professor in the library school at Queens College at the City University of New York, and I'm speaking with you today from my home in Brooklyn. I'm also the current President of the American Library Association. Over the past eight and a half months of my service, I have visited library workers across the country in locations that range from rural public libraries in Marianne, Iowa, to the sprawling LA County Public Library from the University of Anchorage in Alaska to PS 28 in my own city of New York.
(01:57):
I've attended state chapter conferences in Kentucky, Missouri, [00:02:00] Pennsylvania, New Mexico and New York and I look forward to seeing members in Vermont, Massachusetts, Utah, and British Columbia before my year is out. Many of these visits have included hearing great good news about American libraries and I'm, I'm, I can tell you that there is a lot of it out there and I'm happy to share that in my monthly columns and you'll be seeing more of it at my ALA President's program at Annual this, uh, June. But I've also heard a lot of concerns about the state of American libraries as well as the state of the American Library Association. [00:02:30] My partner is a historian. I think about history all the time and I think I can fairly say that we are living in unprecedented times. This forum is to, is meant to address some of the concerns and questions that I've been hearing while I'm on the ground.
(02:43):
We opened up a forum to invite members to share their questions and concerns with us in advance of this forum and got uh more than 60 responses, so the appetite for for answers and for conversation, it's rich and it's there and I'm happy that we're able to facilitate some of that in the coming hour. [00:03:00] Thank you to everyone who contributed those questions. Staff and uh I have worked together to group those questions thematically. We're gonna answer those in um themes. We've got some thematic groups that probably won't surprise you and I'm going to offer some answers along with, uh, Leslie Burger, and then we'll have plenty of time at the end of the session for uh questions from the floor. ALA Interim Executive Director Leslie Burger is joining me to help field your questions. Leslie, if you'd like to bring greetings.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (03:28):
Yes, thanks Emily, um. Greetings [00:03:30] to all. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to join us for this session. Um, I think this is the first time in a long time that we've done something like this, so, um, staying in touch with members uh is really important to us and we don't want that to be just when we're at conference. So thanks for taking the time. Um, inviting, and inviting everybody to this session, as Emily mentioned, we did ask people to ss- submit questions in advance. Um, we've received questions on a range of topics.... Excuse [00:04:00] me!
(04:03):
It's somebody from ALA trying to get me. Um, um, we ave, we've received questions on a variety of topics including the future of Library Learn X, membership dues, and responses to state library diff disaffiliation. We'll start with these and we'll try to keep time toward the end of the session to answer any additional questions that come up during Q&A. I want to just take a [00:04:30] persa- personal moment and thank all of you for um umm asking me to step in during this this consequential time for the association. Um, it's been a pleasure to to rejoin and to reenter the work of the association and I continue as I have always been to be amazed by the energy of our members, the commitment to the American Library Association and our incredible staff who make sure [00:05:00] that the business of the association and your needs get met every day. So thanks to all of you for all the work you do to ensure that ALA remains strong and healthy. And with that, um, I think we have a Q&A feature so you can ask questions during the sessions, type your questions in the Q&A box and we will get started with our first question. Tina?
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (05:28):
Great. The first question is [00:05:30] how is ALA responding to attacks on the association itself including state library disaffiliations and adverse legislation?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (05:40):
So I'll take this one. This is the question I think I get asked the most often because those attacks are happening, uh, to the association as well as to me as your President. Uh, and that had been quite challenging. It's been challenging personally and challenging institutionally, uh, to deal with some of the noise. What I want to emphasize though is that despite that noise, ALA continues to [00:06:00] be strong, our revenues are good, we are in the black, membership is at almost 50,000 right now and stabilizing after the pre-vaccine era of the pandemic. And although registration ebbs and flows, what we're seeing is a fairly normal ebb and flow, the kind that you would see in the association in uh a regular normal year where we weren't seeing this kind of uh adverse attacks. So far I am buoyed by and I think all of us are buoyed by robust registration numbers for the Public Library Association conference that's happening [00:06:30] in Columbus next month as well as early strong, early registrations for our ALA Annual conference in San Diego.
(06:37):
I also want to remind everyone that when a state library disaffiliates from ALA, which just means not renewing its contract, this represents only a single library organization. It does not mean that the chapter is leaving or that librarians in the state can't have personal memberships. So far we have not seen a large monetary impact on the organization. In fact, we're seeing membership numbers fluctuate very normally. Some increases [00:07:00] offsetting some decreases, especially as we move away from the prepen, pre-vaccine pandemic shutdowns. One of the bills that people ask about a lot is in the Georgia legislature that would prohibit any public funds or private funds being provided to ALA from any public institution. That bill has moved to the House higher education committee in Georgia. The current bill has an exception that private funds could be used to cover the costs of maintaining the accreditation of Valdosta State's MLIS program.
(07:27):
I'm a library uh school instructor myself, [00:07:30] have a strong bond with students and absolutely understand those anxieties. But I want to share that the bill that it is being looked at right now has that exception carved out for Valdosta State. Everyone sees the value of ALA accreditation. The House ire Higher Education Committee held an initial hearing yesterday and ALA and me personally, we want to thank everyone in the Georgia library community and public who spoke against the bill yesterday, especially the library trustees and two high school students who spoke on behalf of all of [00:08:00] us.
(08:02):
ALA continues to work with members and allies in Georgia in opposition to this legislation. State and local disaffiliations from ALA have no impact on our commitment to support librarians and community members from those areas. We remain uh completely committed to supporting library workers and library supporters no matter what happens in politics in an individual state. In December, ALA held its first chapter leadership meeting, bringing member leaders together from all 50 states for advocacy and [00:08:30] media training and to share tips and tricks and strategies and conversation about what's happening on individual state levels and how we can support each other. Following up that event staff has held individual meetings with state leaders, has kept in touch holding monthly virtual gatherings that have allowed those leaders to learn from each other and support each other. I spent part of my morning just today on the phone with library association, uh, in a chapter that's facing some significant challenges, and maintaining those open lines of communication are really crucial.
(09:00):
[00:09:00] In terms of legislation we've seen bills this session that would establish criminal prosecution of librarians, but we've also heard lots of stories of prosecutors refusing to take up those cases, and we've seen hopeful signs in several states that have introduced or passed legislation that supports libraries and makes it harder to censor materials. I was at Delaware last week with one of are our board members, Sophia Sotilleo uh from Bowie State, and we talked at the Delaware meeting about legislation coming up in that state that would protect libraries and the right to read. We're seeing a lot [00:09:30] of positive uh feedback around that. Our collective responses and association to these challenges is guided by the input and impact of members. We rely on your engagement, we rely on your membership. This is our association. We are member led and staff supported, so if there's something that you think we should be doing that isn't being done, that response can be changed by your participation. The strength of the association depends on the strength of our members. So I want to encourage everyone to reach out to your state chapter. We'll talk a little bit more about membership uh later [00:10:00] in the call, but that member, those uh state libraries uh need your support and need your membership as well and they can give you direction on what's happening in the ground. So please reach out to your state chapter and to your ALA leadership to discuss particular issues.
(10:16):
And I'd like to pass the next question on to Leslie. Tina?
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (10:21):
Uh we did have someone ask in the Q&A how many states uh have disaffiliated in all?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (10:27):
Uh, yes, okay, so the uh membership office [00:10:30] uh has recorded seven state library organizations that have disaffiliated. We don't share a particular member, uh, whether someone has a membership or not. That's private information that they can share, but there are seven that we've documented.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (10:47):
Okay, next question. What's happening post LLX?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (10:53):
Um, well, uh, first I just want to tell everybody that uh despite the fact that we have decided [00:11:00] to cancel LLX in 2026, we are still holding LLX 2025 in Phoenix. Um, we've heard enthusiasm from the state layder leaders in Phoenix and we hope this promises to be an amazing learning and networking experience. Um, LLX was started um post pandemic as a ex quote unquote experiment, a way to think, rethink what had been our traditional midwinter meeting, and I think we've had some experience now, um, [00:11:30] in terms of attendance and content and and what's happened at the two conferences we've held. Um, and based on attendance and uh vendor support, it looks like it's not financially possible to to retain this event. Um, and so we have made a decision to cancel it for 2026. However, I want to say that there are a number of events that took, take place at, took place at LLX and will continue to and through 2025, um, [00:12:00] that are really important and we are working closely with a, uh, um, uh, a working group of the board and reaching out to stakeholders to ensure a high profile remains for the Youth Media Awards, the Martin Luther King Sunrise celebration, the I Love My Librarian Awards and other events that took place at that Mid-Winter meeting to ensure that we retain high visibility and, um, get the word out about these important [00:12:30] awards and and events.
(12:33):
Um, I want to remind you that even though we may not be having a a um LLX event in 2026, there are many ways that we can continue to connect with each other through division conferences. PLA is coming up in a couple of weeks. Online professional development opportunities. Um, there's some wonderful CE opportunities offered by ALA and many of our chapters. Our flagship annual conference, which is going to be bigger [00:13:00] and better than ever and continue to do so over the next few years. Um, so we hope that you will continue to support us by attending these events and opportunities. We know it's really crucial uh for library workers to connect to each other and to the author and publishing communities. This is core to our work and we will continue to explore and innovate new ways for people to get together to bri- build those connections. [00:13:30] Any questions about LLX or conferences? Okay, if not, I'm going to send the next question over to Emily.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (13:43):
Sorry about that, I was trying to unmute. We did have a couple of follow up questions in the Q&A. Um uh, what are, what is the chance of MidWinter coming back?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (13:55):
You mean in its original iteration?
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (13:58):
It would seem, that's the question.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (14:00):
[00:14:00] Okay. Um, you know, we have not discussed that specifically. Um, I think we were dealing ori- initially with the decision to hav-, to have to make the decision about 2026 and then as we think about the future, um, certainly that kind of conversation can be on the table as well as anything else.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (14:21):
And then the other follow, oh, sorry Emily, go ahead.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (14:24):
And just to remind folks that the executive board has a committee that has already started meeting and discussing with stakeholders [00:14:30] how to, uh, re-home those events, which means re-envisioning what we do together in January.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (14:38):
Okay. Uh, I think that that answers the other follow-up that was there about the Youth Media Awards as well. Um. We will move on to the next question. How are we messaging to more conservative states?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (14:52):
I'm happy to take this one because I know how challenging, uh, messaging can be in parts of the country that are, uh, [00:15:00] facing political situations and circumstances that make it challenging to talk openly and honestly about the importance of value of, elel, things that we are committed to as an association. Diversity, equity and inclusion, access to all for everything in our library. Those sorts of commitments are being challenged in some parts of the country right now, and I think it's important to remember that even when we disagree, even when there are things that we don't particularly overlap about, here in the American Library Association, [00:15:30] I like to think about the fact that we agree about 90% of the things. So we might have differences of opinion about a couple of things uh here and there and maybe our political viewpoints won't be the same, but all of us are committed to libraries, are committed to the value that libraries bring to their communities.
(15:44):
I was in Alaska a couple of weeks ago traveling with, uh, a a high school librarian named Pam Verfaillie from uh Valdez Pub uh High School, and uh we were driving around looking at different libraries, public school and academic, and Pam and I didn't agree about a lot of things. There are a lot of [00:16:00] things that we didn't overlap about, but we overlapped about a hundred percent in our commitment to libraries and commitments to our patrons, the communities that we serve. And that's what's true and it's true as true in New York and California as it is in uh Mississippi and Idowa Iowa and Idaho and all of those kinds of states. We have to remember that we are stronger together and what we share is so much bigger than the things that might pull us apart. I've been lucky to be invited to visit a lot of the conservative states that [00:16:30] you might think I might not be welcome in.
(16:31):
I've been to South Carolina three times during my uh term. I was just there a couple of weeks ago supporting librarians in the state. I've been to Missouri, Iowa, Utah, Idaho, Louisiana, Ohio, Alaska, and I've received a warm welcome in all of them. I do want to remind everyone that ALA is a non-partisan organization. We are committed to the freedom to read. And I find that that commitment to freedom resonates across the political spectrum no matter who you are or where you are, the right to read and the freedom to read, that's something [00:17:00] that the vast majority of Americans hold very dear. So even as libraries, library workers, our association and our president are weaponized in some parts of the country in the attacks on libraries, we need to lean into, I think, our core message. Who we are, what we do. We are library workers.
(17:17):
We provide access to information for everyone regardless of background, identity or means. And this is true everywhere. It's not just true in blue and red states. That's not a calculus for those of us in the American Library [00:17:30] Association. We support librarians in all 50 states, and it's important to remember that we respect local conditions and we follow the lead of our state chapters. If you're concerned that ALA isn't acting or is acting too much or isn't doing enough, we invite you and encourage you to reach out to your state chapters. That's your first stop. And as ALA President, I take my lead from the chapter presidents who are in a leadership role with me this year. And so I follow their lead. I don't go where I'm not invited and when I'm invited, ALA will show up, I can promise you that. [00:18:00] And again, I want to remind everyone at the chapter leaders meeting that we held in December, this was in response in part to this need and a recognition that the messaging that might work in one place doesn't work in another.
(18:10):
Like there's the thing about libraries, right? We're hyper-local institutions. I go into a library in Truckee, California, and they're circulating snowshoes. I go to one in Santa Fe. That's not what's happening there, right? We're hyper-local institutions. And the messaging we share with our publics also needs to be hyper-local. And so the support that ALA offers, [00:18:30] I think it's a commitment to what we share in common, right? And, uh, that's that's who we are, who we are as librarians and who we are as an association. Also want to remind you again that if there's messaging yanna be, you want to see coming from the association, please get involved. Please let us know. The board is highly accessible. I am highly accessible. You could always reach out to ALA staff. If there's a story that you would like me to be telling, I want to encourage you to reach out directly.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (18:59):
Okay, Emily, we have one follow-up [00:19:00] question from the Q&A so far. What grassroots outreach and organizing is the leadership of ALA planning?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (19:07):
I assume what you mean here is the kind of on-the-ground organizing work that's necessary to move the needle on some of these uh particular cases. And I think that outreach and organizing work is happening across the association even if it's not coming directly from the top. We've got uh lots of chapter engagement as I've been sharing, and that uh has included the advocacy training that is the kind of grassroots, [00:19:30] uh, meaningful grassroots uh organizing training uh that I think is most meaningful on the ground. In terms of grassroots outreach from me, I've been everywhere! I've talked to everybody! And so making sure that I talk to library workers has been a priority from my campaign into this uh year as president uh and talking to people on the ground is what gives me life in a very difficult year and what gives me hope and making sure that we're telling the stories of grassroots organizing that's already happening on the ground and making sure that that gets out from [00:20:00] the national uh platform that I hold and the ALA holds, making sure that people know the kind of organizing work that we're doing on the ground. And again, if there's something you'd like to see, please reach out.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (20:14):
Okay. Moving on to the next topic from the submitted questions. Are you addressing the high cost of membership?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (20:24):
Yes, we are. Um, the council, uh, voted to lower [00:20:30] the dues um across division uh in the association and standardized dues among divisions and round tables. So that's a first step that will go into effect starting this September. So, um, they're not reduced equally among membership categories, but every category will see some kind of change in terms of the membership cost. So I think that's a really positive step and hopefully it will encourage other people who are not currently members [00:21:00] to um reconsider the decision to join ALA or not join oh ALA if it's more affordable. Um, at the same time, we're looking at ways that we can increase membership value. Um, so we want to make sure that when you write that check for your membership dues every year, it it's not just a check you write at the end of the year or whenever you renewal a list, but you feel you get some real value out of the, of your membership in ALA.
(21:25):
So we're looking to develop new professional development opportunities, both [00:21:30] virtually and at conferences. We understand that not everybody can get to a conference either because of logistics or affordability or location, whatever the the maten reason might be, but in our world post covid where so many things are available to us virtually, we can provide opportunities for members to participate and take advantage of wonderful continuing education opportunities um provided by ALA without ever having [00:22:00] to get out of their pajamas. So, um, so we're we're looking at doing more of that. And we're also looking at providing um discounts on professional development activities, networking events. Um, I think the the, one of the losses we're feeling about LLX going away and the old MidWinter going away was that incredible networking opportunity that takes place at at took place at MidWinter and took place at LLX. So we're looking [00:22:30] at ways to provide those kinds of opportunities as well. Um, in terms of our value, uh, ALA distributes millions of dollars of grants to small and rural libraries, um, to help them serve people with disabilities from physical disabilities to people with dementia or veterans suffering from from PTSD.
(22:52):
And a few weeks ago I was in our Washington office and um meeting the staff and hearing about all of the wonderful work that they do on our behalf. [00:23:00] And I just jotted down the amount of um funding that they've secured to benefit libraries because it's somewhat staggering when you look back at it. So um 2.7 billion dollars from the Digital Equity Act to ensure digwital digital equity through libraries. Um, affordable connectivity program discounts uh to ensure household connections so that people can participate in our digital society. Um, digital [00:23:30] equity grants, um, funding that's gonna come um shortly to help with digital skills building, um um, that will be available to libraries as well. So it's not only um um the the opportunities that we provide in terms of professional development, but there's actually some real dollars that are coming back to libraries because of the work that ALA is doing. And so [00:24:00] um um we need to appreciate that we're we're busy uh working on advocacy to support funding measures to help libraries each and every day and to provide grants and opportunities to help individual libraries.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (24:16):
And I'd just like to add two more things to that, Leslie. First, I think we do have to recognize that salaries in the library profession are low, and that is a problem for library workers across the board. And it's not something that we can remedy in uh the dues [00:24:30] structure even though that's really important. But thinking about ways that we can leverage our membership and uh the infrastructure of ALA to support advocacy for for library workers and library workers salaries is really crucial. And I'd encourage you to take a look at the ALA Allied Professional Association if you're a member of ALA. Uh, those resources are also available to you, the library work life newsletter, and make sure that you subs ss subscribe to that and look for uh ways that the association is thinking about that salary picture. We know that that's the real issue [00:25:00] that this question kind of gets to.
(25:02):
And the second thing I would say is that I think we're used to memberships and organizations feeling transactional, and there's an element of that, right? But I want to encourage those of us who can afford to think more expansively about what a membership in ALA means. When I stand in front of audiences and say that I represent an association with fif nearly 50,000 members that carries quite a bit of weight, but I'm always thinking about what it would mean if I was standing in front of that audience representing a hundred thousand or 200,000 library workers and [00:25:30] what that would mean to to the set the certain loudness of our voice. So uh just ta to add those two things to the conversation about dues.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (25:42):
Great. Uh, so far I don't see anything. I'm sure that we will revisit some of these topics as we get, as people put their questions into the Q&A, but for now, let's move on. Um. How do you respond to questions that ALA is too partisan [00:26:00] or political?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (26:03):
Here's another question I get all the time. I get it when I'm standing in front of audiences, but I also get it in my inbox. I get it in my uh DMs all the time. Why is a partisan organization? And the answer is that it isn't one. When we talk about political organizations, those are organizations that organize themselves around giving some bene benefits to one group and not others. Right? They make promises on on the basis of loyalty. That is nothing like [00:26:30] what ALA does. ALA is a nonpartisan, nonpolitical organization that has been dedicated to our longstanding mission of improving library services for all. That's what we do with the American Library Association. The the accusations that we are otherwise are just that. They're accusations, they're not the reality that I think all of us experience inside of ALA. The mission of ALA is one that most Americans agree with and believe in. And we've lived through all kinds of political storms, right?
(26:59):
It is not the [00:27:00] first, this may be an unprecedented time, but it's not the first time that the American Library Association has been wrapped up in a national political conversation. I don't know if anybody's seen the film uh Storm Center with Betty Davis? Um. Put it on your list 'cause you'll see Betty Davis who's just extraordinary, but uh a film made in 1956, uh the first film that responded directly to uh the McCarthy, um the McCarthy moment, right? And it was a a screened at an ALA conference in 1956. And the story might sound [00:27:30] familiar to you: a small town librarian is asked to remove a book from the collection because of the content, which in this case was communist, and she refused. And it caused a storm center in the town. And so, we've been here before. But even through that and even through this moment, this is a nonpartisan organization. That's not to say that people don't have politics within the organization, but as an organization and as your president, that is not what shapes what we do every day.
(27:58):
So that is sort of how I respond [00:28:00] to that question. And I think it's really important to think about the motives behind the people asking those questions. Because those of you who use ALA for the same reasons I do, for connection and networking with library professionals across the country, for continuing education and professional development even around AI, which I almost want to leave the profession before I have to learn about it, but I can't do that. But even around that, right like we you learn and stay up to date with the transformations around technology, we find community and collaboration and connection, none of that is partisan and none of that is political. [00:28:30] And I share, I'm proud to have friends across the association from all political viewpoints, including ones I don't agree with, including ones that I would say are wrong, but that doesn't matter. Right? What matters is that we believe in libraries and we believe in the American Library Association and the power of libraries to improve their communities. So that's the response that I give. Um. And if there are responses that you would like us to be making or if there's something that you wish we would say, I want to encourage you to reach out. It's like when somebody comes up to you with a reference desk and is like, I can't believe you don't have [00:29:00] James Patterson on the shelf. And the answer is always, well, let me find it for you. Here it is. I know we've got it, and that's the case in ALA too.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (29:15):
Okay. And as I said, I I do see that we do have questions that are coming in after a response, so we will probably revisit a couple of these topics towards the end when we get to the Q&A questions. Moving on to the next topic that we have from the submitted questions, what is the status of [00:29:30] the executive director search?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (29:33):
Um, I'll take this one. Uh, so the status is we are searching for a new executive director. Um, we have hired the executive search firm of Isaacson, Miller to partner or guide us in the search for a new executive director. Um, we have a steering committee that is active and it's comprised of ALA member leaders and association staff to work in conjunction with Isaacson, Miller on drafting [00:30:00] an ad, getting the ad out there, interviewing candidates, and ultimately making a a suggestion. Um, before the the ad is um was put together, Isaacson, Miller spent a lot of time talking to people, um, I think member leaders, um, some of us in the association, and circulated sa survey among staff to understand people's um, i-, uh, perceptions about what is needed [00:30:30] in terms of skills and attributes for the next executive director. So I think that's all been factored into the conversation um in terms of the recruitment and the advertising uh that we'll be um you'll be seeing shortly. Um, the Isaacson, Miller website, I think if you just search under Isaacson, Miller you'll get there pretty quickly,
(30:52):
also, um, encourages people interested in learning more or those applying, uh, interested in applying for the position [00:31:00] to um learn more about it and to submit their credentials. The search is on track um and the association will hire as soon as the right candidate emerges. And, um, you know, we've ha-, we've heard some very optimistic ideas in terms of when that might be, um, but I think it's realistic to say that it's probably going to be later this year, if not into the first part of next year. But it all depends who applies. So if you know somebody who's perfect and wants to be [00:31:30] the next director of the American Library Association, certainly encourage them to to apply.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (31:38):
And I'll also just add my deep gratitude to Lessa Kanani’opua Pelayo-Lozada who is chairing the search for us, our Immediate Past President, and steering this in the right direction and just to assure the members that the executive board understands how important this priority is, and it's at the top of our list uh every day so just, we we understand the need for a a strong uh permanent [00:32:00] leadership in this position. We're committed to moving that as quickly as we can.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (32:07):
Okay! Next question. What is ALA doing about efforts to censor books and programs?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (32:17):
You know it's interesting because this is the kinda only conversation I've been having for the last year and a half in my President-Elect year and now as President. And so the question is one that I I hear as both an an honest question about what we're doing and also [00:32:30] uh, packed inside of it, the anxiety that a lot of us are feeling about this unprecedented wave of organized censorship and uh is there any way to stop it? Is there any way to stem the tide and uh calm the nerves and calm the experiences of library workers across the country? Uh, so I want to remind everyone of the hard work that ALA is doing in this area. Uh, we just released last week the final censorship data from 2023 and the numbers reveal they back up what a lot of us are feeling. Public libraries [00:33:00] have come under significant attack since uh last year. We're seeing uh double digit increases in school libraries as well uh and library workers all over the country continue to battle these efforts.
(33:12):
The 2023 numbers also found that these organized pressure groups were demanding that dozens and sometimes hundreds of books be removed from the shelves. Almost half of the books that were challenged were either authored by or focused on characters that were LGBTQIA+ or people of color. And last [00:33:30] week we saw media throughout the United States and internationally raising, reporting our numbers, raising awareness of these coordinated efforts. As many of you have experienced, we've gone from the days when a concerned parent requested a review of a single book to people demanding lists of lists of books be removed, many of them classic works of literature. Uh, I, this is going to sound like I've made up this story, but I really didn't. I was coming home from a a trip to the gym uh on the weekend and it was one of the first spring sunny day in New York City and the neighbor of mine was sitting outside uh of [00:34:00] our building and sat down and got to talking to her.
(34:02):
She has a fourth grader who brought home a book from her school library uh that gave her nightmares. There were some images of some uh children dying and she was really concerned about that and concerned about what it meant for her kid and and should this book be in the library and should it have been made available and accessible to a fourth grader and shook those concerns to her school library and talked it through and got the perspective and understood the situation. And it was the kind of challenge that I think all of us are familiar with. It's appropriate [00:34:30] for our public to engage with us around those kinds of questions. But what we're seeing is today in many parts of the country is nothing like that. But we at the ALA are committed to fighting back against that. This is our wheelhouse. We know that uh the Unite Against Book Bans campaign that has been running uh since I took office as President-Elect continues to pull together members uh both institutional and from uh individuals that provide information and toolkits about how to fight back, but it's also [00:35:00] a platform used to mobilize interested and concerned citizens when we see cases of censorship uh happening.
(35:07):
And so we know that people are battling back and we are using that platform to pull people together. I was at a a conference and uh Martha Hickson was there who some of you may know as school librarian in New Jersey. And when she faced a challenge at her school through that UABB platform, and other forms of organizing, 400 community members came and joined her to sign, to to stand with her in that moment. [00:35:30] So the United Against Book baba Bans platform facilitates that. Our state chapters are using uh OneClickPolitics®, a tool that comes from our Chapter Relations Office and from uh the Washington Office to organize locally. We know that local organizing is what wins the day, that ALA can't come in and save places, but what we can do is provide the tools to the people who are on the ground doing that kind of organizing work. We continue to look for ways to expand our work in uh the Office of Intellectual Freedom.
(35:58):
Uh, we'll be supporting [00:36:00] a a Law for Librarians program. You'll hear more about that uh you learned about during uh uh last year. So we've got lots of that kind of work coming. And so the support I think is everywhere. As as President, my focus is on finding those stories where we're seeing people winning and making sure that those stories get told and those skills get shared. I met yesterday with a pair of activists in St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana, to learn more about what was happening on the ground uh in Louisiana, which has been [00:36:30] a a hotspot for book bans and getting to know uh the organizing work that they were doing, which included the legislative active, ad, you know, advocacy work that we're all familiar with, as well as more direct action on the ground kinds of organizing. And those tools that people are using to pull people together in their local communities, making sure that we surface those stories and share them is my priority uh in the member leader spot right now. Um.
(36:54):
So we're doing a lot. Does it mean that wuh we're done with this firestorm?That we're through with it? Is it over? [00:37:00] No, but we know that uh we have to keep working on it. I also want to highlight the Policy Corps initiative that expanded this year, adding members to uh the Policy Corps that comes out of Washington, uh that it will be specifically focused on topics related to intellectual freedom. So lots of work happening at the association and I think this this this question, we stopped getting it when we win, and I think we're winning all over the country in small and large ways and we're going to continue doing that.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (37:30):
[00:37:30] Yeah, and I just add to that the chapter advocacy conference that Emily um mentioned earlier that took place last December was a wonderful tool in terms of sharing stories and successful techniques for how to fight this this battle on the ground back in the States. So if we can continue to replicate that and share those stories and get them out there and give people the tools that they need um um to to fight back, that's [00:38:00] that's wonderful.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (38:03):
That brings us to the end of the pre-submitted questions I believe?
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (38:08):
Does, we have....
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (38:08):
And we have....
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (38:10):
We have quite a few questions uh, haha, um as the, as we can work on uh on the staff side of going through the Q&A and getting those questions ready. I will start asking you some of the ones that we already have. Uh, what are two or three things you think ALA does really well that you wish received more attention?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (38:30):
[00:38:30] Hmm. Um, well speak to that. Um, one thing I think we are doing really well is the work against censorship. Um, we have a Office of Intellectual Freedom, I think, which is unparalleled. Uh, the Unite Against Book Bans organizing effort has been really successful and has provided a lot of resources um for for people who are dealing with challenges at the state and local level. [00:39:00] Um, and I think we've built a strong network of advocates um both through the advocacy conference and just through a network of people who are concerned about these issues, being able, who can lenient on each other and call each other or call the office and get resources to support. Um, and we help in terms of providing, um um, filing amicus briefs when there are challenges in individual states such as happened in Texas um earlier this this year. [00:39:30] So I think we do really well in that area and unfortunately the challenges are just coming fast and furious at this at this moment. So um we're working as fast as we can to help as many people as we can.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (39:45):
I've got a list of great things ALA does as long as my arm. One of the things you get to do when you're ALA President is learn a ton about the association. Like I, I know government documents are important. But after having a a launch date with the chair of our uh Government [00:40:00] Documents Round Table, learning about the important work that that Round Table does to preserve access to government information even as it goes paperless, even as fewer and fewer people understand the importance of metadata and digital preservation, it's really inspiring and I can't think of any other organization that has a unit totally committed to ensuring access to government information in the future. Like, what could be more important in this political moment? So as long as my arm. But the other things I want to highlight, did you know that the Merritt Fund, which gives direct material [00:40:30] support to librarians facing employment discrimination due to their support for intellectual freedom, has been around since 1971.
(40:37):
That fund that has recognized the need to support librarians in positions that far too many of us find ourselves in now. It's been going since 1971 and I'm really proud of that fact. We offer uh the book awards that we offer. Like I'm an academic librarian, so I've spent all my career like thinkin' about sinall [?] and like, are, you know, wound care you know best practices for wound care, constructing [00:41:00] a PICO question, that kind of stuff. I had no idea the role that our our our youth school and public librarians play in promoting reading and literacy across the lifespan. The love for books that happens inside this association? It's why we take the YMA so seriously and why we're committed and dedicated to rehoming them in a way that amplifies and and raises up the voice of our youth librarians. Absolutely crucial. So the awards programs. The Public Programs Office [00:41:30] that administers so many of our grant funds. If you go to that part of our website, you will see stories that will blow your mind.
(41:36):
Just incre- incredible work happening in small and rural libraries all across the country. I was lucky to be in Washington with Sara Dallas, one of our board members a couple weeks ago at our Legislative Fly-in, and she told a story about one of the rural libraries in the southern Adirondack region here in New York State, huh, where the the library partners with local farmers and brings in fresh produce to the public libraries in the in the region. And [00:42:00] a patron came in, she was 80 years old and she said, I've never tasted a fresh beet in my life. And I just like I sat with that. Like that is what libraries do every day, hundreds of times a day, all over this country, in places large and small. They're giving people joy, access to the taste of a beet, which I happen to love, you might think it tastes like dirt, but at least she's got the option because of American libraries.
(42:26):
And that's what's so crucial. And so much of that work is is supported through our [00:42:30] po Programs Office and I encourage you to take a look at what they're doing. Uh, we have services for incarcerated people. We have an engaged and active ALA Council that governs the association, that brings in some of the smartest minds across the country. We've got a an Executive Board that I feel lucky and blessed every day to get to work with, for the people are really the thing in in ALA that makes me proudest. And I know I sound like a booster and a bumper sticker, but I really am. It's a wonderful organization getting to spend so much time with it and in it has been the gift of a lifetime.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (43:00):
[00:43:00] Thanks Emily. Uh, to follow up on your recommendation uh or your mention of the Merritt Fund, we had a question come in, can we make it easier to donate using Apple Pay, etc., other platforms?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (43:16):
Great suggestion. I'm sure that we can. We have uh top-notch uh web development team. I dunno, Leslie, if you want to speak to that.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (43:24):
Yeah, I, we will, I will talk to our I-Team team immediately and see if we can can get [00:43:30] that on our donation site.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (43:35):
Okay. Next question. With the membership vote la- of last year, what is the status of the constitutional Congress for the new bylaws and structure of ALA?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (43:49):
I'm not sure what that question is referring to. The the bylaws have been passed um and this is our first year working with the new bylaws and [00:44:00] the Executive Board continues to review how that's going and think about processes going forward. But as far I, uh, but as far as I can tell, this is, um, you know, we're we're in the implementation moment.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (44:15):
Great. And then ah haha staff can reach back out to our question asker and get a clarification and get a better, get a more thorough answer in case that that didn't cover it. Thank you Emily.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (44:24):
Thank you. I'll be a librarian, right? Like I dunno the answer but I can find it for you. Yep.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (44:29):
Always a good answer. [00:44:30] Uh, can you provide a brief update about ALA's 150th anniversary campaign?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (44:38):
Yeah. Leslie, can you take that one?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (44:39):
You want me to take this one? Sure. So um as you, well, some of you know that ALA will be celebrating its a hundred and 50th anniversary in 2026 uh culminating at a super duper annual conference in Chicago that year. But leading up to that, we are planning a number of activities um and um launching [00:45:00] a fundraising campaign to help bring some additional dollars to the association. So we have a hundred and 50th anniversary campaign committee and it's divided into two parts. Um, one group is working on commemoration activities, which could take the form of lectures or um presentations or events that will take place throughout the year that people will be invited to, members of the public. [00:45:30] Um, still, they're still talking and the exact nature of those events is yet to take shape, but there will be many public celebrations planned throughout the year. And then the second piece of that is really thinking about how we ensure our next 150 years and that is to invest in a capital campaign that would raise funding for additional funding for our endowment.
(45:58):
So ALA has an endowment [00:46:00] fund right now, some of it is restricted to particular uh for particular purposes. What we're looking for in this campaign are unrestricted gifts that would be invested in our endowment and over time would grow and generate income for the association. And we've set an initial target of $30 million for our um uh campaign. Um, I'm very optimistic that we can meet and exceed that goal pretty quickly um and that will rely on us [00:46:30] making it easier for all of you to donate and for you to be talking uh about ALA and its value to others who may be in a position to donate significantly. Um, we're, we're just in the organizing stages of this right now and we'll have, there's been a public announcement about the campaign and the commemoration events, but we will have more details coming in the in the next couple of months. So those are the plans.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (46:57):
I also want to recognize that we have so many good suggestions [00:47:00] coming from members in the Q&A and I want you to know that mem-, that staff are taking all of those down uh and we'll definitely address them going forward. And I just thank you for your engagement on that. If I if I look at the Q&A, I'll get lost. And so I wanna set a a special appreciation to the staff who are monitoring for that.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (47:18):
Thanks Emily. Ha. Another question. I follow news about librarians who seem isolated or called out for harassment. How can average librarians best support those who [00:47:30] may be targeted, some who may not even be covered in the news?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (47:36):
Yeah, I mean I hear a lot of these stories too, and I think that sense of isolation is really challenging. One of the ways that I try to address it as President is to make sure that I am out and loud and proud even as I experience some of the attacks that are being, that are targeting some of our members as well. So making sure that people see that you are not alone I think is the single most important thing that we can do as library workers. It's part of why I think [00:48:00] a bigger ALA makes people feel safer, right, when we have more of us around. I think that's really important. And when I talk to people who have undergone that sort of, those sorts of attacks, librarians who are facing discrimination and uh attacks inside of their own communities, sometimes from people that they went to school with or people they go sh-, you know, they their kids are in school together.
(48:24):
And I think that can be really crushing. But when I talk to people who've experienced that, they say the one thing that makes 'em feel better is talking to someone else [00:48:30] who's been through that situation, um, who's gone through that together. This is why ALA has funneled some significant funding towards uh uh supporting chapter based hotlines where people can call and talk to a library worker who's been through the same situation. And I understand that we've got uh uh, that program is getting up and running and I think that's really crucial and uh I've certainly been through the ringer myself. And so if you know somebody feel free to have them reach out to me directly, like and I mean that, um. As long I can talk to every single [00:49:00] library worker in the country, but broaden in my network of people who have experienced uh harassment due to their identity or due to their support for intellectual freedom, uhm, that's gunna be something that I work on, I know coming out of my presidential year because it's really important. And donate to the Merritt Fund and we're going to try to make it as easy as possible because giving financial support to people who are dealing with that, those kinds of situations is really crucial and important.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (49:24):
And I would just add to what Emily said is that if you are aware of somebody who is undergoing um ah, [00:49:30] threat or an attack being an accusation, whatever it might be, you should reach out to that person as well and let them know that you're there to support them. Because too often we're waiting for them to contact us and that may be the last thing that's on their mind, but knowing that there is a friend or a supporter who can offer moral or emotional support is really, really helpful.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (49:57):
Okay. Another question? [00:50:00] Many states like mine have other library organizations representing special groups, school and academic libraries beyond the official chapter organization. What efforts are being made to include their perspectives at ALA?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (50:15):
Um, I can take that one. I-. So that's one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about um and that is how do we um how do we make sure that we're working across organizational lines to make sure that we are getting the total [00:50:30] library perspective. And I think it would be really helpful, I know this used to happen a little bit in the past, um, but for con-, just a simple conversation among SLA or um AASL or the Medical Library Association or any of the other library groups that are out there, I'm sure I haven't listed them all, to talk about common concerns and how we might work together to address some of these things and perhaps build some coalitions among [00:51:00] our groups so that we can accomplish more together than we might be able to do on our own. So I think that's an excellent suggestion and something we've been thinking about.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (51:15):
Okay. Looking through the Q& ha Q&A, um sorry I, I want to make sure that I I hit on any topics that we haven't touched on yet [00:51:30] uh or any follow ups that I, that I'm seeing more threads of. So I want to make sure that I pull up. I know we have limited time.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (51:41):
I see a question about preaching to the choir and maybe I'll respond to that one while you, uh, while you....
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (51:45):
That's actually perfect. That was exactly the one that that I was looking at.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (51:50):
Sometimes I feel like we are preaching to the choir. How do we get Moms For Liberty folks to actually listen and detooth their fear? Um, you know, uh, my sister has a saying, she says [00:52:00] sometimes we have to preach to the choir, how else are they going to practice, right? Like I think a lot of the conversation needs to happen among us so that we have a stronger sense of what our argument is and what our analysis is. And I think that's important. Uh, there are going to be people who will never agree with us. Like I go into a, an American public library and I see nothing that people would be against. Right? Like I was in a library in Ames, Iowa, the Ames Public Library, and you go up to the reference desk [00:52:30] and are the adult services desk on the second floor and there's a tray of reading glasses of various um strengths just sitting there in a in a table that says you know that you can check out while you're for youth while you're in the library.
(52:43):
And I saw that and I was like, okay, so there's clearly been a problem of people losing their glasses you know like checking to see if they're in their pockets and the library saw that and responded to it and solved the problem. Right? Like got some reading glasses that you can check out and use inside the library. Every library is [00:53:00] like that has like two dozen things that are just like problem solving things that libraries do that are amazing. So you can't walk into a library, I don't think, with any good faith and not come out feeling like this is the best American institution by far. So when I encounter people who don't agree with that, who see libraries as places that are not safe or that are dangerous to children, we know that that's not true. And so there's, I think it's important to remember that the choir in this case is actually really big, right?
(53:30):
[00:53:30] Survey after survey tells us that the vast majority of Americans trust their library, trust their librarian to make decisions on behalf of the community. And so making sure that that large majority stands together. I think it's more important than trying to get someone who doesn't agree uh to stand with us. I come from an organizing background in addition to a library background and we have a saying, we say we don't talk to fives. Right? If I'm gunna have people who agree with me as ones and people who are opposed to me actively and organized against me as fives, [00:54:00] I'm not going to talk to the fives because I don't have all the time in the world. The people that I need to talk to are the people who are movable. Right? And so some of our opponents don't appear to be very movable. So I think rather than thinking about ways to engage them, thinking about the people who uh are maybe uh share some of those perspectives but aren't totally against us.
(54:20):
I met a librarian in New Mexico when I was there for the state chapter conference who had a a patron come in and and with one of these lists of books to challenge them. [00:54:30] And and and I I wrote about this in one of my columns and he said, you know, you're a mom who's here all the time. You homeschool, you value the library and I know it. What is this? What is, is there something that you wanna see in the library that you're not seeing? And she gave him a list of books that she wanted to see in the library and he bought a couple and it diffused the situation. So I think taking, like, focusing on the people who are movable, who maybe have been uh taken in, I guess, or like have a, you know, think that the library is dangerous [00:55:00] and making sure that we talk to and reach out to those patrons, I think is is the important piece. But I don't think we need to spend our time talking to fives. That's my Presidential, that's my Emily opinion, yeah, but the association, of course, we want to include everybody.
Christina (Tina) Coleman, ALA Marketing Specialist (55:19):
Okay. We've gotten a lot of really great cresh, questions and we are just about coming up to, I I worry that we don't have time for and uh any more cuz I know we have a couple other [00:55:30] points to get to, so uh I will collect all of the questions that are remaining in the Q&A uh and we will uh field those as we can e through the board or the staff?
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (55:42):
Okay. Thank you so much Tina, and I I knew we would run out of time for all the excellent questions and I want to assure you that thisin this town hall is the first of many communications that we hope to have with members about their concerns. I think it's really important to address them directly. Those who come to the end of our scheduled time together, I wanna thank everyone for [00:56:00] joining us and for your great questions and terrific comments and feedback and suggestions in the Q&A. Uh, please know that we'll be reading that uh and taking notes and making sure that we uh assemble some responses to the questions that we weren't able to get to. ALA is a thriving community of members, a thriving community of members. I know that you're all here because you're members and that you see the value and the importance of the association, these challenging and unprecedented times.
(56:26):
I want to thank you personally for your membership and for your support. It's been [00:56:30] a tough year, but it's the year that we're going to get out of stronger than we were when we came in, and I believe that. We're guided by our members and guided by the people who engage with us. If there's something you want to see in the association, come join us and make that thing happen. With that in mind, I want to remind everyone that you should have by now received your ballot for the ALA elections uh that will be happening through uh the beginning part of uh April. I want to remind you all to take the time to read through the uh candidate bios, [00:57:00] review the uh statements that were shared in American Libraries from our two presidential candidates, and I want you to take the time to vote. It's really important, it's really important that you exercise your voice inside of this association. Voting ends April 3rd, so please make sure that you open and cast your ballot before that. Leslie?
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (57:19):
Thank you Emily and Emily, thank you so much for all of the time that you have devoted to ALA during your presidential year. You've been all over the country and back several times I think, [00:57:30] um and um and represent us all so well. So thank you for that and for dealing with lots of the tough issues that that are out there. It has not been an easy year by any means, and um I feel great that you were out there representing us. So thanks for that. Um, before we wrap up, I want to highlight a couple of other upcoming events that you should keep on your calendar. Um, so don't forget to vote. Voting closes April 3rd. Um, the PLA conference is coming [00:58:00] up next month, April 3rd through 5th in Columbus, Ohio. I look forward to seeing many of you there. National Library Week is also next month, April 7th through 13th, and this year's theme is Ready Set Library, and you'll be getting more information about that shortly.
(58:18):
Um, believe it or not, registration is already open for the 2024 Annual Conference in San Diego this summer, um and um conference registration is robust so far. So [00:58:30] I'd encourage you, those of you who are thinking about going to register and get your hotel reservations quickly. And um finally, as Emily said, if you're looking for additional information about a specific topic or a question we didn't answer today or something you're still curious about, um, you can reach out to Emily, any other members of the Executive Board, myself or an ALA staff member, and we will do our best to answer your question and respond to your needs. If [00:59:00] you're not sure about who to contact, you can always em em uh email us at membership@ala.org, and our membership resources and services team will make sure that your question is is sent to the unit best able to answer it. Um, so thanks again to all of you for joining us and have a great day.
Emily Drabinski, ALA President (59:22):
See you in San Diego everyone.
Leslie Burger, ALA Interim Executive Director (59:24):
Bye everybody.
Jim Azevedo (00:02):
We're live. Hello everybody. Welcome to Self-Publishing Insiders. I am Jim Azevedo. I lead corporate communications here at Draft2Digital, and today it is my honor and my privilege to welcome with us John Chrastka, the founder and, um, the founder and executive director of EveryLibrary. Now, John, I'm, I'm gonna read through some of your background here, and you have such an interesting [00:00:30] background, but I'm gonna hit just some of the top level points here. So, the, uh, EveryLibrary, uh, folks, if you haven't heard of EveryLibrary, it is the first nationwide political action commu, uh, political action committee for libraries, which John founded way back in 2012. John is also the co-author of Winning Elections and Influencing Politicians for Library Funding and Before the Ballot, Building Political Support for Library Funding. [00:01:00] I also wanna mention that, um, in 2014, John was named a Mover & Shaker by the Library Journal. Anybody who is in the realm of libraries or who knows, Library Journal knows that if you're named a Mover & Shaker, you're pretty much arrived. In 2022, John was named Chicagoan of the Year by the Chicago Tribune.
John Chrastka (01:24):
What one, one of one, one of them, Jim. Not, not, not to suggest I was it, just one of [00:01:30] them. There was a group of us, but it was great.
Jim Azevedo (01:32):
Okay. Okay. Okay. Then in 2023, you're named a Notable by Publishers Weekly for your work opposing book bans and censorships. So, John, here we are in National Library Week. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome.
John Chrastka (01:50):
Jim, you're, you are a very kind host and your community's very warm and welcoming. I see you in the chat already. Thank you, team. It's nice to be here.
Jim Azevedo (01:57):
Yeah. Well, we're glad to have you here. [00:02:00] Uh, John, uh, before, we've got a lot to talk about today, and I'm so glad to see everybody in the comment section already. Uh, we've got some important things to discuss today, and I hope that our audience, you guys, when you're listening in, if you have any questions pop up, please add them to the comment section, and John and I will try to get to each and every single one of those. But we kind of, but before we dive into the nitty gritty John, wanted to go over a few stats with you, uh, and our viewers here. So, [00:02:30] I thought I would lead off first by, um, by mentioning a quote from Andrew Albanese from Publishers Weekly, who's been covering some of these stories around book challenges and book bans lately. Uh, John says, quote, more than three years into a historic surge in attempted book bans, the organized political attack on libraries and the freedom to read continue to grow. Because now some stats here from the New York Times that I wanna mention here.
(03:00):
[00:03:00] I think this was, um, Alexander Alter, or Elizabeth Harris Harris from the New York Times who said, the number of unique titles targeted for censorship in 2023 surpassed 4200, 4,200 titles, up by an astounding 65% over 2022. Now, get this. In the last 20 years since the American Library Association's been tracking this stuff, prior to 2021, [00:03:30] the average number of titles that were challenged, um, in any given year was just 273, the highest number during that span. That's the span of the last, over the last 20 years, the highest number during that span was 393 in a single year. So if we add up all the challenge books during that time, during the last 20 years, it was just 3,637, which is over 600 [00:04:00] fewer than we're challenged in 2023 alone. So, John, what's going on? What's happening out there?
John Chrastka (04:09):
Jim. It is the, um, it is the perfect storm. Uh, 20 years ago, there was no internet to organize people. Um, there were attempts, uh, to, to, to, uh, see, uh, either movements based on morality, uh, movements based on, on protection of, of kids, theoretically protection of kids. Movements that are anti-free [00:04:30] speech. Uh, they all existed in silos from each other. There might have been a mimeograph or Xerox newsletter going around for some of these organizations if they were well organized. There might have been individual actors. But what we have now is a confluence of many different movements, uh, that have come together, uh, and have been given permission by political actors and been weaponized, in many cases, uh, as politicized or performative activities, uh, to go after these books. Uh, what we know [00:05:00] very clearly from where we're sitting here at EveryLibrary,
(05:03):
uh, is that these performative and politicized actions are intended to do, well, you have to understand where, where the attacks are coming from in order to respond properly. Um, they, they're intended to do one of a couple of different things. One is to, uh, use the book, uh, censorship activity as, as really a form of discrimination. Uh, there are political actors out there who know very, [00:05:30] very clearly that it's easier to go after a book than it is to go after a person or a group. And yet by saying something is obscene, which is one of the, the reasons that you can constantly ...
Jim Azevedo (05:41):
Glad you brought that up.
John Chrastka (05:42):
... Well, you know, remove something from the library. There's a big difference between unconstitutional censorship and constitutional censorship that we'll get to later. Uh, but the idea that something is obscene, something is criminal, uh, is a way to label people, whether it's anti LGBT or anti-black and brown. Um, [00:06:00] there's also, uh, uses of, um, um, censorship activity, uh, discrimination activity like this that's intended to, uh, discredit the profession of, of, of librarianship to discredit the institution of public libraries to go after educators. Um, and we see that not only in the book bans, but also some bills that have happened over the last two legislative sessions that would criminalize, truly criminalize under, under state, state level obscenity laws, educators, um, that [00:06:30] could be art teachers, English teachers, nurses, school nurses, uh, counselors, school librarians, uh, and or criminalized public libraries. And in one or two states, they've tried to criminalize museums again, you know, this is like the eighties all over again when it came to attacks on NEA and NEH. And I mean, these are not new, Jim, but they're weaponized in ways, and they're able to be organized across, uh, divides because of, I mean, if we were organizing a movement right now, we'd be on [00:07:00] stream yard together, you know? Yeah,
Jim Azevedo (07:02):
Yeah. That's true. So it, it, it's not just a few concerned mothers out there who are, you know, carrying some torches around. This is a nationwide organized political movement.
John Chrastka (07:16):
According to the, the research we've done, and our media partner most recently on some good survey work with the American public was, uh, Book Riot, uh, who I'm sure that some of your, your network, you know, spent some time with. Yeah, they're great. Uh, Kelly Jensen over there at Book Riot has done [00:07:30] tremendous original reporting on, on this topic. And we did some original survey work where we asked parents, uh, EveryLibrary Institute, which is our, our nonprofit side, EveryLibrary, the political side on our, on our nonprofit side, uh, with Book Riot, we asked American parents, do, do you agree with these so-called Moms for Whatever, you know, the, the, the purple parents, the, the mantle of, of parental rights is, has been picked up and, and, and is, is being used as a crudgel, uh, by these special interest groups. So we said, okay, parents, [00:08:00] we asked thousands of parents, what, what, what ...
Jim Azevedo (08:03):
This is across the entire country?
John Chrastka (08:05):
... across the entire country, what do you think, feel, and believe about, about public libraries, school libraries, and, and librarianship in relation to, to book bans and censorship? What, how does it impact the culture of reading? How does it impact the culture of learning? Um, somewhere between, uh, 16% and 22% of parents came back and said that they're comfortable with some form of censorship. Um, you know, this is to say that this is [00:08:30] a, a totally fringe movement now, uh, three years into it, as Andrew's article, you know, in Publisher Weekly said, um, maybe if we'd asked that, that question three years ago, it would've been under 8%, under 7%. We asked that question two years ago, and it was only 12. You know, it's growing now. It's at least 16% of, of parents, um, who are comfortable with the idea that the way that we protect our kids from something that's fairly abstract in many cases, um, is by censoring [00:09:00] or even criminalizing, uh, the, the, uh, the culture of reading, the culture of learning through libraries and schools. It, it's, it's flabbergasting to me, Jim, that we've gotten to this point. But I look at, but I look at what's happened in, in the health space, you know, I look at, I look at what, what's happened, uh, in the election administration space as well, and, and don't think that we're somehow or another special or unique anymore.
Jim Azevedo (09:24):
Wow. Why is obscenity is such a key term? I mean, and can you even define it in the first [00:09:30] place? Can anybody define it what it means in a legal sense?
John Chrastka (09:33):
So, obscenity is a, is a criminal, uh, action. Uh, it is in the criminal code in all 50 states. Uh, obscenity is defined really primarily at the state level when it comes to, to identifying what is obscene and distribution of obscene materials and things like that. It's a cri-, it's, it's in the criminal code, uh, along with, at the federal level, uh, title 18, largely around telecommunications. There hasn't [00:10:00] been a federal prosecution in a generation, uh, on obscenity. And that the obscenity cases that have been brought against books recently, um, there's two, um, that have happened in the last 18 months. There was one in Virginia, uh, where Barnes and Noble was being sued. And there was one in Michigan where a school district was being sued, uh, specifically over obscenity allegations about certain, certain key titles. In both of those cases, the judges.... [00:10:30] When, when an actual judge gets a chance to adjudicate these, these issues, actual judges say that these are not obscene, these are not criminally defined, uh, titles.
(10:39):
Virginia dismissed it outta hand. Uh, the Michigan case and Kent School District there, Kemp County School District, said no as well. There, there is a test for obscenity. Um, in ..., yeah, there is. Uh, the Supreme Court, um, Supreme Court put it together in 1973. It's, it's been so common over the last [00:11:00] 50 years that it's in the background, you know? Um, but the test is called the Miller Test. And the Miller Test was, was, uh, based on a case, you know, like you hear about, um, you know, Roe v. Wade that that that, there's a case number, but the name is the Miller Test. And Miller asks, um, judges and juries to look at whether or not the, the book is obscene across three different definitions. Uh, one is about whether or not it's pervasively, vulgar, uh, the [00:11:30] other is whether or not it violates current state law.
(11:33):
And the third, fundamentally is whether or not the, the, the, the material in question, the book, the, the art, the movie, uh, has any artistic or literary merit. And on those three criteria, like I said, judges, you know, prosecutors don't pick up the case. Judges, judges throw 'em out, because you don't find risable, to the definition of obscenity, materials in public libraries or schools. They're, they're not collected. [00:12:00] And while there's a lot of of things that have adult themes, those aren't criminal, adult themes are not criminal behavior. Um, the definitions are, are, are there, they've been there since, I mean, in some states, the, the definitions around what's obscene have been there since the Kennedy administration, not just the, the latter part of the Nixon years, you know?
Jim Azevedo (12:19):
Okay. Yeah. I wanna go back. I don't want to like just revisit what we talked about already, but I wanna go back to the last three years in particular, just because of that, of that [00:12:30] spike. And granted, I 100% agree with you on the Internet and services like Streamyard and the ability to share information, but still, what, what's, what's happened in the last three years in particular? Is it because we have an upcoming election?
(12:45):
Yes.
(12:45):
Um, is it a little bit of everything?
John Chrastka (12:48):
Oh, a little bit of everything. Uh, there's a, there's, there's been a historic movement to try and end sex ed and, uh, the teaching of gender studies. And gender and sex are, are key drivers. [00:13:00] You'll see it in the, the PENAmerica data that we also help collect and support. Um, gender, uh, sex ed, the teaching of sexuality, the idea that, that, you know, our neighbors, uh, us who are gay or queer or trans should exist, can exist. That that vector of attack, um, has been, has been taken to a new, new extreme. Um. And the fact that there is an opportunity for politicians and political movements to, [00:13:30] um, go after a book and use it as a way to build their base. I mean, the, the, the, the, um, Virginia and Texas gubernatorial races in 2021, rediscovered censorship as a way to, to build a campaign, um ...
Jim Azevedo (13:48):
So they've seen that it's worked, that this is a political tool weapon that's worked in the past.
John Chrastka (13:53):
That's right.
Jim Azevedo (13:53):
And they're gonna, they're gonna rip that page out of their playbook, out of the previous playbook and use it again.
John Chrastka (13:58):
Yep. In 2023, [00:14:00] the, the, the fellow who, who ran for governor of Louisiana and won, he was the current Attorney General during his campaign, his first campaign, uh, event to run for governor of the state of Louisiana, one of the 50 states in the United States of America, was to, was to publish a, a report called Protecting Innocence. There was a hit job on public libraries, um, made all sorts of allegations about criminal activity, and then put an asterisk on it saying, it's not really criminal 'cause it doesn't, it's not risable to the [00:14:30] Miller test. And then he campaigned on it and won the won, won. He's the governor of Louisiana right now. He, he had a tip line, Jim, that was set up so that citizens could report bad books at their libraries. Um, the fellow who's running for governor of, um, Missouri right now, who's the current Secretary of State, he's the State Librarian according to the constitution of the state of Missouri.
(14:54):
Um, he has, has promulgated, um, um, rules that would be very restrictive [00:15:00] on the right to read in, in public libraries, uh, as a component of his campaign for governor. I mean, politicians and political actors. I mean, Jim, I run a political action committee for libraries. I said that fifteen minutes ago, you know? Full disclosure, I mean, we're a political action committee for libraries. I, I mean, the, the First Amendment, the Constitution, uh, and support for it lines up with our political agenda. The 14th Amendment when it comes to pol to, to civil rights and, uh, equal protection lines up with our agenda. [00:15:30] If you're on the other side of those issues, I mean, you're gonna wanna find something that you can campaign on. And to say that our children, somehow or another are being turned into criminals or monsters. I mean, there was a campaign in, uh, Michigan, uh, at the Patmos Library that your, your readers might be familiar with, um, or your, your listeners might be familiar with.
(15:52):
The, the Patmos Library was on the ballot in the fall of 2022 to renew [00:16:00] their basic funding levy. Um, and the campaign against the renewal, like the campaign to, to close the library, came from a group of frustrated book banners who said, and I, and I'm quoting here, it's really disturbing, but I'm quoting here, "get rid of the groomers and pedophiles, say no to the library." I mean, this, this kind of rhetoric works in terms of motivating groups of, of, um, uh, politicized activists. Uh, it's tragic. Uh, that campaign, actually, they, they did lose, [00:16:30] um, in, in August of, of 2022. Uh, they lost again in November of 2022. Uh, we were able to help in, in a couple of different ways. Actually. There's, there was some very, very good fundraising that was done across the literary and library community. Um, Nora Roberts for one, as a, a big name, put in some, some, um, serious support there. Helped keep the library open. We spent a year, Jim, working on, on resettin' the conversation in the community, deescalating that, that hateful rhetoric, [00:17:00] um, talking to people about what they really believe about the right to read. And we were able to pass it in, um, November 2023, that library's gonna stay open. But ...
Jim Azevedo (17:10):
Uh, John, I'm sorry, go ahead. Please.
John Chrastka (17:12):
No but, but the fact that we've got to this point is, it's kind of amazing in America right now.
Jim Azevedo (17:17):
Yeah. I'm, I'm, I mean, hopefully my jaw isn't on the desk right now, because you're, you're informing us about all these things that are happening today in 2024. And I dunno, [00:17:30] hopefully my mouth isn't agape, or I'm constantly shaking my head, but it's hard to believe, I mean, are these folks, are they just going after public libraries, or are they attacking schools at the elementary level as well? And ...
John Chrastka (17:44):
Yep, it's key.
Jim Azevedo (17:44):
The higher all the higher education academic libraries too. Is it across the board?
John Chrastka (17:48):
Ya. The, the cadence of, of, um.... I wanna answer your question accurately in, in a couple different ways. One is that the K-12 environment, schools [00:18:00] are, are actually more under attack than, than public libraries are. Uh, we spend a lot of time on the school side as well with education alliances, like we do with, uh, local public library alliances. Um, but on the school side, the, the cadence of attacks against the right to read, the attacks against students, um, for their identity, uh, for their humanity, uh, the, the attacks against teachers and other education, uh, professionals, as well as the structure of public education [00:18:30] cannot be understated, Jim. It's, it's an extraordinary moment, um, when they're going after the, the future of public education, as well as the dignity of, of those students and their ability to, to read stories about themselves and get accurate information. On the public library side, it's, it's happening all the time. On the academic library side, it's growing. Um, there are, uh, the, the academy's not immune from what's happening in the rest of society. And it's very important for, for folks who are involved in [00:19:00] higher ed and in academic libraries, um, to be, uh, more than vigilant, uh, to be active about why, uh, the First Amendment on campus, uh, is so important. Um, and, uh, why the, um, the culture of learning, the, the opportunities for scholarship are so necessary to have without a fear or favor-based approach to collections.
Jim Azevedo (19:24):
John, what would you say to somebody like me, I'm, I'm out here in the San Francisco Bay [00:19:30] area, and somebody like me might say, well, you know, that that stuff's happening in the deep south, or that would never happen here. Um, what would you say to someone like that? It sounds like this is spreading.
John Chrastka (19:45):
Well, if you... So the... If you're truly in a, in a place that's not experiencing the problems, then what we need is your help with other places. You know? Uh, this is a, a situation that if you believe, [00:20:00] uh, like we do, that the, the right to read is a, is a key element of, of society, uh, demo, democratic society, civil society, the progressive ideals, then joining it in with an organization like EveryLibrary, uh, or another, uh, anti-censorship group, I think is important. Um, we put to work our value system right now in a couple of key ways that we help, we hope people who who can join us can do. We have a, an a, [00:20:30] uh, a platform called Fight for the First. Uh, fightforthefirst.org is a, uh, it's basically change.org for libraries. You know, we, we've set this up so that if there's a problem, thank you for putting that out.
(20:42):
There's a problem, uh, in a local community. Somebody can, can say, we have a problem. We'd like some, some assistance. Here's what our problem looks like. We can platform that call to action very quickly. What we do is, uh, train, coach and guide and support the good people who are in that community who wanna [00:21:00] stand with either the library or for the First Amendment, depending on how things are going. Um, and then we need folks who are outside of the zone. You know, if you're in it, man, if you're in, if you're in the trenches on this, it's exhausting. It's hard. It is, uh, it's community organizing. It's union organizing. It's the, the fights are akin to the anti-nuclear, you know, uh, reproductive justice, um, you know, civil rights fights. I mean, these, these people are in it. So, if [00:21:30] you're outside of that zone, what we do as a national organization is we put money to work from donors, from vendor donors, individual donors.
(21:38):
We've kind of a Bernie Sanders model for our donor base, and we help them, we help them, yep, help make their voice heard. Uh, we spend money on every single campaign advertising on social. Um, nothing goes viral anymore. You know, if anybody's doing marketing knows, you gotta be able to put that out in front of folks, you know? Um, and we, we show up. We, we show up, uh, sometimes with, [00:22:00] uh, direct donations. Right now we're doing a, a fundraising drive in Prattville, Alabama, where the, the library director and four members of the staff quit rather than implement unconstitutional, bigoted policies on the part of that library board. I mean, these these, this is how we do it when there's, when, when you're in a, when you're in a green zone, like, like a San Francisco. If you're in a hot zone, though, like a Prattville, what you can do if you haven't, if you're just coming around to understanding this situation, [00:22:30] is, again, a Fight for the First kind of flight framework. Join in, you know, join in. We've got opportunities for people to articulate, you know, a, a value system when it comes to the watchdog work. We've got our opportunities for people to be guard dogs for the First Amendment and for the library and for the schools. That's really, you know, hardcore activism. Um, there's, there's a chance for people to bird dog this digitally. Uh, and Jim, we're trying to give 'em different pathways to, to put their role [unintelligible] to work.
Jim Azevedo (22:58):
Yeah. It sounds like you're, you've got [00:23:00] a ton of resources out there. If somebody wanted to organize, um, a group or a committee, they could come to you. They can come to EveryLibrary and just ask for some help. And you'll say, okay, well, here are some resources, do you need us to come out and, and train your people?
John Chrastka (23:15):
Yep. That's us. I mean, that, that's exactly what we do. And we've been doing that for 12 years in different ways. We started off as you, as you mentioned before, doing local library ballot measures. We've done this, uh, in defense of school librarian jobs. We do this all the time on negotiations [00:23:30] with city councils and county governments on library funding and school board funding. Uh, and this one on, on the Fight for the First, I mean, it's not just the First Amendment, freedom, freedom of speech issues, though, by the way, it's a whole cloth approach to the First Amendment. Uh, the right to petition is very important. Um, the right to assemble. Uh, and the right to be heard to your government is absolutely necessary. Uh, freedom of and from religion. Uh, we're trying to work in, in support of, um, of public libraries as part of the public sphere, [00:24:00] uh, in what's, uh, essentially a very evolving space around religion in the public sphere. Um, and the freedom of the press and the transparency issues. I mean, we're, we are approaching this, I'm not saying just the freedom of speech, it's foundational. Um, but also from that civil rights perspective as well, because if we see censorship as a form of erasure and discrimination, then we have to act against it in an anti-discriminatory way.
Jim Azevedo (24:27):
Yeah. I mean, if it's gonna be systemic on the discrimination side, [00:24:30] then it's gotta be systemic and organized on the fight back.
John Chrastka (24:32):
That's right. So, yeah, we're actually working in a couple of states right now on, uh, new legislation, uh, that would support, um, public libraries primarily. Uh, schools on civil rights is, is a, is a different framework. And it's a, it's a whole other episode of this. Um, but the, uh, the idea, uh, within, uh, model legislation that we help produce called the Libraries for All Act, uh, Delaware has a, has a version of it right now [00:25:00] that's just passed the House from from the Senate. There's a version of it that's embedded in Vermont, uh, legislation. There's several other states that we've helped advise on this, and a few other states that we haven't, who are also doing this. Um, where how can we utilize, uh, civil rights protections, public accommodation laws, as a justification for bringing materials into a public library.
(25:22):
The First Amendment really is about what can we keep. And you can keep things that are not criminal. But why do we bring it in the library in the first place? Why [00:25:30] why don't we bring it in the library in the first place? Is often that it's interesting to the majority. You know, it's comfortable to the majority. But what happens when we are looking at a book, say about a family with two same sex parents, and it's, it's, it's a family story. That book is, is about a family that's legal. You know. Post gay marriage in this society. Okay? Interracial marriage. I mean, let's just talk about families for a minute. That we're, we're in a society that, um, is is, well these [00:26:00] are legal humans and arrangements of humans. Okay? So the books that we have should not just be comfortable to the majority, but they should be relevant to those protected minority classes under civil rights law. And I think it's a revolutionary approach, Jim. Um, I'm glad to see a couple states are, are considering it, because what we don't need to do with our right to read laws is weaponize the First Amendment against itself. You know? I'm not interested in seeing more ban book by banning, but ban [00:26:30] book bans by banning book bans bill. Those are.... How, how do we affirm the dignity of the writer and the reader in that conversation.
Jim Azevedo (26:39):
Wow. And John, I mean we've kind of touched ubon upon the, the themes and the topics that continuously are being discriminated against or are continuously are being challenged. But can you run through some of those again just to make sure that we're not leaving any particular group out?
John Chrastka (26:59):
Sure. Uh, [00:27:00] well, we see anti LGBTQ, um, plus...
Jim Azevedo (27:03):
Year in and year out, I'm assuming.
John Chrastka (27:05):
... year in and year out. Um, the, um, the the movement around, uh, don't say gay, you know, is manifest in in censorship and discrimination. Um, same way in, in in anti CRT, rhetorically anti CRT is anti-black and brown in communities of color. The the history of race and and racial, uh, unrest, animosity in this country is a source of grave shame. And so we'd rather censor it than than deal with it. You [00:27:30] know?
Jim Azevedo (27:30):
It just never happened.
John Chrastka (27:31):
No, never happened. Yo the, so the, um, and, um, issues of, of, um, um, anti-public sector work, uh, anti-education are... The censorship activity might be about a book that's been around forever, you know? Like the Kill A Mockingbird type books, the, it's the, I mean, Walter the Farting Dog, which is a classic as far as I'm concerned. You know? These, [00:28:00] these books, they're, they're not going after that for any other reason than to discredit educators and education librarians and public libraries.
Jim Azevedo (28:08):
I think we've all seen titles that we've read in high school or even college, where we're like, what I, how could you possibly ban that book?
John Chrastka (28:15):
Absolutely, absolutely. So, the, the, those different vectors of attack together, we have to remind ourselves that there's also a, a movement, um, that it's, again, trying to eliminate the teaching of sex ed in schools and gender studies. Um, [00:28:30] it is very conservative. It is morally driven, and I don't understand why you'd wanna have children not know who they are. You know? So, uh, and you take all that together with the politicized and performative and, um, uh, book attacks that are really just used to, to rile up the base. You know, we, we see that every presidential cycle. We see that every gubernatorial cycle where there's a fight going on, um, that kind of pernicious politics, [00:29:00] uh, should have no place in education or in public libraries.
Jim Azevedo (29:04):
Wow. Wow. John, is it just the books that are in danger? Or are we talking about librarians, like people who are also in harm's way? Um, maybe libraries are being vandalized and are librarians in danger? I mean, have there been attacks on people?
John Chrastka (29:30):
[00:29:30] Um, there have been, uh, a tremendous uptick in threats to both the institution and the humans who work there on the public library side. Um, there's always a threat matrix in in K 12, uh and, uh and, being a teacher today in America is very difficult. Being a lot school librarian in America right now, um, is very difficult. But the, the attacks, um, have not been too... There there's a case here or there where there's been some graffiti work or some defacement, uh, there have [00:30:00] been situations where a, a colleague of of mine, uh, went to the book, uh, drop in the morning one morning, uh, in the American West, let's just say that. Um, it's not all in the south Jim, it's not all in the west either. It's happening everywhere. Um, but went to the book, the book drop in and, and opened it up, and there was, uh, uh, several books that had been shot with a shotgun.
(30:23):
Yeah. Um, the number of bomb threats that have been lodged against libraries, [00:30:30] uh, we're, we're working on some tracking right now around that. Uh, this is not unusual for the public sector. Um, unfortunately, uh eh, again, election administration, election, you know, clerks of elections, they're feeling it, um, on the health side, uh, social workers, I mean, the idea that there's been some level of permission to, to make these kinds of personal or terroristic threats against public sector workers. Uh, and again, public sector workers, you know, public librarians [00:31:00] are public sector workers. Uh, school, school libraries are educators. The fact that there's been permission given by our political leaders from certain circles, uh, to go after these people in these institutions, um, is a return to a kind of, of, um, domestic violence. A a da a a civil violence that I think it needs to be addressed in very, very strong ways by law enforcement. Uh, it needs to be dressed addressed in very strong ways by groups like the ATF and [00:31:30] the FBI, I mean, this, this should not be taken lightly. Uh, we do not even, we don't need this to be escalated.
Jim Azevedo (31:37):
I, I, I, so, well, this probably is the conversation for this, but I personally, I just wanna understand why, like, I just, I don't get it. Maybe it's, um, I wanna understand from a compassionate perspective, but why are some of these groups feeling threatened? Um, I took my little girl, you know, during pride to go to a reading, you know, go to one of the drag readings. It [00:32:00] was a blast. She had a lot of fun. I think she, she was only three or four years old at the time. And I remember the reader asked, asked, you know, do any little girls or little boys in here have two mommies or two daddies? And, you know, some hands went up. And I'll never forget, my little girl turned around and she looked at me, and then she looked at the, at the reader and said, well, I only have one mommy and one daddy. And it was so cute and so innocent. But then I think about some other communities who are trying to educate their young, [00:32:30] but then they get, um, you know, the Proud Boys or somebody will come in and burst through the doors and, and try to end those types of educational events. And it, it just blows my mind.
John Chrastka (32:42):
Yeah. I mean, the, the to are for a drag queen story time in San Francisco is, is a lot, um, easier perhaps than some other parts, you know, parts of, uh, of America. And, uh, for a library to, to, to do a drag queen story time spontaneously without any preparation for [00:33:00] its community, might actually not be a smart move. Um, it takes some time to have those conversations if the, uh, if the, um,
Jim Azevedo (33:08):
From a safety perspective,
John Chrastka (33:10):
Ya, for safety. But also from, from a, a, uh, a community identity perspective. Um, the... If a drag queen story time is, you know, I mean, there's, there's, I mean, San Francisco. You know? I, I've been to all kinds of different things when I visited San Francisco. It's great fun, you know? Um, but there's some communities where the only gay person that somebody [00:33:30] might know was somebody's nephew who left town when he graduated high school. You know? So I, I have to say that, that there are times when the library community might be pushing the envelope a little bit more than it needs to in certain places. Uh, or, or too quickly. How do we even dialogue about, about neighborliness? How do we have a dialogue about live and let live? How do we, how do we have a dialogue about the fact this is a public library and not a, not a sacred space, or a church community? Um, those kinds of dialogues [00:34:00] have to happen in America.
Jim Azevedo (34:01):
That's a really interesting perspective, especially from where you sit.
John Chrastka (34:04):
Well, I mean, we're, we're, we're interested in, uh, programming that not only edifies, but also challenges. And edification is nice, but edification is just comfort. Yeah let's challenge ourselves. But having those discussions about where do we start from with this local place? I'm not admonishing anybody who's put one on before, but I think we've, we, we might've been surprised about how uncomfortable most of America is. [00:34:30] Um, and let's, how do we move through, through dialogue and discussion, through, through the, the, the, the action of reading, the action of writing, the action of sharing, um, how do we move in into understanding and empathy.
Jim Azevedo (34:44):
I love it. And I, I'm the first to admit that I might be taking it for granted, given where I, where I live...
John Chrastka (34:49):
Oh and I'm not, I'm not pushing back on you at all, man. Let's go. We'll have a good time. You know?
Jim Azevedo (34:55):
I wanna bring up this comment because it reminds me of a question that I meant to ask you earlier. [00:35:00] Um. Natalie, thank you for your comment. She says, I may be in Sweden, but I'm all for fighting for the rights of authors in the US to be able to write what they want and have the books in all shops and libraries without restriction. Um, thank you for that comment, Natalie and I, I brought it up because is, is... This problem of challenges and censorship, I'm sure it's not just a domestic problem here in the US. Um, how widespread across the globe is it?
John Chrastka (35:28):
We're seeing, um, uh. [00:35:30] The United States, um, either is a leading exporter or we're in dialogue with other nationalistic groups, um, or other special interest groups, uh, uh, in, in other countries. And there's a circle, you know, there's a feedback circle. I look at, I look at, um, Reagan and Thatcher. Okay. Just as a, as a political example. They, they, they helped each other become better at their particular brand of, of conservatism the same way Clinton and [00:36:00] Blair had a virtuous circle about their version of progressivism. We see, uh, we see in the states an either a, a mode of exporting going on to Canada, um, and, uh, Ireland and, um, some other parts of, of Western democracies where the techniques of individuals who have strong concerns around parental control or parental oversight, uh, they have strong concerns about morality. Um, they've [00:36:30] learned from the American playbook.
(36:32):
Um, and so we're exporting some of those ideas to some of these other countries. Ireland in particular, the public libraries are, are under siege there right now. They're handling it, I think, uh, better than we have in the States. Uh, perhaps they've, they've, they've learned a little bit from us, but I don't think so. I think that the, the, uh, framework around human rights and civil rights in, uh, and the right to read in the EU is much more, um, uh, focused on, on human beings than, than in the United States, which is focused on laws not being made. [00:37:00] Um, but if we're also looking at this as a, as a, a feedback cycle and a, and a loop, um, there are authoritarian regimes in the West, like in, in, I mean, Hungary, for example, where we, I think have learned from them, uh, about how to utilize these wedge issues around identity politics.
(37:20):
Um, the idea that there, there should be, um, no unconstitutional censorship in the public sphere is, is not, is not uniquely American. [00:37:30] Um, but the particulars of how it's done in America, were on the First Amendment and around due process issues, um, is I, I wouldn't count counsel anyone living outside of the United States to follow the US uh, First Amendment playbook 'cause it's not applicable under your, your, your local laws. Um, that said, the, the, um, the opportunity to see the lowest number of barriers to free expression, both as a writer, uh, as well as a, [00:38:00] as a reader, I think is, is what really distinguishes, um, a functioning democracies in the West from other kinds of authoritarian regimes.
Jim Azevedo (38:08):
Fantastic comment. You know, we're quite lucky here, uh, to be on the front lines of the, this democratization of publishing, you know, with, with what we do here at Draft2Digital. And we've been able to, to witness this tsunami of diverse voices kind of flood the entire industry, and we're very proud of that. Um, [00:38:30] so what can our, what can our community do? What can indie authors and publishers do, um, themselves within their communities? Uh, what can they do with their reading communities, with their fans to help protect themselves and their fellow authors?
John Chrastka (38:46):
Sure. So if you're in the hot zone, and you have the, the ability and the agency, the liberty to do this yourself, because not everybody does, okay. Not everybody can, can, can, can become an activist. But if there is something going on in your neck [00:39:00] of the woods and you can stick your neck out, let's do it. You know, uh, having authors, uh, and writers and creators in the creative economy show up to these conversations, whether it's in a particular place saying, I'm from here too. This is why I write, this is what I'm writing about. These are the humans I'm writing about. Um, and at the state level where there are fights around, uh, legislation and policy as well to say, "Hey, I'm a hometown author." You know? "I'm a I'm a home state author." If you've, if you have, um, a legitimate voice, you need to, to, to [00:39:30] speak it.
(39:30):
And so, you know, we can help, uh, make some of those connections. Some of those pathways happen on these kind of campaigns. There's other organizations out there that, that spend more time with authors directly than we do. But, but if you're in a green zone, a space where there's less heat describing, um, talking not just about your own work, and I know we're all generous here on this call, don't get me wrong. Um, but not just your own work, but the culture of reading, the culture of writing, the culture of creativity, [00:40:00] the idea that that, um, uh, books and literature and movies and, and other creative forms of expression exist, um, within the human condition of a civil society. You know, describing that to folks who, uh, might not be readers themselves without challenging them to become a reader. Um, describing... One of the things we try and do with, yuh, on EveryLibraries here.
(40:25):
We, we're not trying to make people into users. We're, we're trying to meet people, uh, who want to be [00:40:30] supporters and talk about why support is necessary for these institutions and these people who work there. Um, we don't require anybody to change their lifestyle to become a user of the library, nor should we have a litmus test about people, uh, being more meritorious for being readers. They can consep, I mean, we, we run a, we help support a, a big survey every six months in the United States called the Freckle Project. Uh the Freckle Project, um, asks a key question of American readers, [00:41:00] which is, where did you get that book? And that, that answers fascinating. You can get it on our EveryLibrary institute, uh, site, uh, under our research tab. Where did you get that book? But we know that, you know, Americans util... Nine out of ten Americans utilize either for reading for pleasure, reading for work, reading for, for answers, um, mostly reading for pleasure. Nine outta ten of us do it every year, every day, every month. You know? Um, so talking about the, the, the, [00:41:30] the joy of being a writer, the dignity of being a writer. I mean, those are absolutely necessary. Uh, because we have to remind people it's not just all censorship. And that there is something transformational about not just writing, but reading.
Jim Azevedo (41:48):
Hundred percent. That's beautiful. Um, let's say that I am in a, in a zone that's a bit more difficult. How do I, how do I start? Uh, maybe, maybe I'm a little afraid to, [00:42:00] to make my voice heard. Um, what's the best way to start? So they, should I come to EveryLibrary.org and ...
John Chrastka (42:07):
Yeah. Well, I mean, we, there, we, we currently, we just put up our, uh, 98th, no, sorry, 89th, 89th, um, Fight for the First campaign at a local level. It's sometimes it's one zip code. And Jim, it's, it's, it's, I mean, sometimes it's countywide. We have a few state organizations that we support and, uh. Uh, the Florida Freedom to Read Project, the Texas Freedom to Read Project, Alabama Read Freely are [00:42:30] are some, some of those, um, yeah, we would be happy to make connections. Um, there's some strength in numbers here that, that should not be underappreciated. There's solidarity that happens. Um, and if, if somebody's in a hot zone and they're like, you know, I, I would do this if, if asked, I'm asking you now. Um, you know, this is the time that, you know, if, if you're looking around and like, why doesn't anybody else? We, we'd be happy to stand with you. Um, we can onboard a campaign [00:43:00] in a crisis situation, or even in an inoculation situation, you know, not, not everything's a hot zone. Sometimes you, you, you know, it's coming. Let's, let's get ahead of it. We can we can get you up and running in five, ten minutes. We'd be happy to.
Jim Azevedo (43:14):
Are you talking from an individual [John: yeah] point of view or [John: yeah] from a li like let's say I'm, I'm a librarian, and a librarian can go here as, as well, and say, well, I've got me and three or four of my fellow librarians, and we're concerned.
John Chrastka (43:28):
Um, the librarians [00:43:30] themselves, yes. But the majority of, I mean, we're, we're almost at a hundred campaigns. The majority are, are humans who care. They're they're, they're civilians, if I may. You know? It's, it's, it's parents. It's, um, concerned citizens. It's uh everyday folks. It's writers. Um, it is, huh... It's people who are, who are affected personally, but also people who are compassionately engaged or, or, or engaged with some of the issues around the law. I mean, there's a lot of different reasons to [00:44:00] come to a fight. Um, and we, we will be very happy to take the First Amendment fans, the, uh, the folks who are defending their own dignity or the dignity of their neighbors and family, uh, or folks who just don't wanna see the whole place burned down. I mean, civil, civil society here, Jim, is a big deal. Um, you know, what's my hometown supposed to be like? What kind of country we're supposed to be livin' in.
Jim Azevedo (44:23):
Absolutely. And I've got the sense from talking with you, John, is that, "Hey, everything, I'm in a green zone, la de da, everything's fine [00:44:30] here. I don't have to get involved." But after spending the last forty five minutes with you, it's like, no, ye you, I can't stay quite on this stuff when I've got friends and colleagues in other part of the country who are exactly the folks who are being targeted. Um, ...
John Chrastka (44:47):
Well, a good place to get started. If, if you're in a green zone, um, as such, uh, maybe you're, maybe you're accidentally not. Um, if you don't mind, Jim, could you put the, the action, uh, EveryLibrary.org url? [00:45:00] Um, we have Fight For the First, which is very much these tactical campaigns. Nope, the action.EveryLibrary.org one.
Jim Azevedo (45:09):
Come on, Jim!
John Chrastka (45:10):
Don't worry, you're cool. So folks, it's action.EveryLibrary.org. Uh, so we work with a number of state library associations, as well as other state le statewide actors like these, uh, freedom Regroups. You can hit the, this homepage here and scroll down. And you'll see that there are state level actions that, that are happening, uh, that are focused on legislators. [00:45:30] You know, the House and the Senate in a lot of places are broken. Um, and we've got several things happening in Congress. So if you wanna just kind of dip your toe in, um, we've got ways to make your voice heard, uh, without having to, to become an activist. Uh, this is not slacktivism, mind you. This is legitimate. It's, it's going out and saying to a member of Congress, member of state legislature, uh, please, uh, fix a problem. Uh, please prevent a problem. Uh, both of those are, [00:46:00] are, are ways to make your voice heard.
Jim Azevedo (46:03):
Fantastic. Um, I, I knew this was going to happen, and I say this every week. We, the conversation went by so quickly. We're already at time. Uh, but John, I mean, we don't have to stop right this second, but I wanna ask you, is there anything else that you want to make sure that our viewers understand when it comes to book challenges, book bans, and sense and, and censorship?
John Chrastka (46:26):
Sure. Uh, as, um, [00:46:30] as it goes, uh, right now, the, the, huh... I think we need to, to reengage across libraries and across education, uh, with the independent book sellers, uh, the independent book publishers and the independent authors community. Um, the, the, the conversation around what's the role of, of reading? How does the creative economy work? Uh, what is the, [00:47:00] the hope for outcomes of, of reading in a very distracted digital age. You know, the, the, the things that we've been seeing, uh, in terms of format changes, um, are not a problem. You know, the, the move to eBooks, uh, is a democratizing force in the marketplace. Uh, it's a democratizing force in the ability for readers to access wide range of, of, of different writers, uh, and publishers. Uh, these are good things. You know, the, the movement [00:47:30] away from, from only print into digital is something that I think a lot of the, the, the library community is, is very invested in.
(47:38):
But there's some policy issues around it, um, that are not just specific to a, a, a censorship conversation today. There's, there's fundamental issues around, around ownership, uh, and around the right, uh, the, the, the right to lend. Um, you know, if we have, uh, uh, eBooks where, um, you can only, I mean, [00:48:00] I look at, I look at, at, at eBooks as being one of the, the, the new states of matter. You know, like in, in, in high school we learned about, you know, gases and solids and liquids, and, and then we learned about plasma at some point. We're like, holy cow, there's plasma too. There's also eBooks. Because of the way that the law is set up. Um, the reason that the public libraries exist, um, is because of two things. One is, um, public tech, uh, uh, a progressive tax policy [00:48:30] that funds the common good.
(48:31):
You know, do we wanna put tax dollars to work on things as prosaic as libraries or parks or, you know, sewers? You know, like just, like, how do we wanna tax ourselves? The other reason that public libraries exist is because of the right to lend and the right to lend as a component of the creative economy. The fact that libraries can buy, um, books, print books, but can't always buy digital. I mean, [00:49:00] I think we have to have that conversation. Uh, because without the right to lend, we, we really lose a, a, a core component. I mean, copyright's in the Constitution. I believe that copyright is as a constitu, I mean, if we're gonna talk about the First Amendment, let's talk about Article One, Section, Section Eight, Clause Eight. You know? Those big policy fights, Jim, I think need to be engaged by public libraries and independent authors and publishers with the same kind of veracity [00:49:30] that we're engaging the this conversation about First Amendment. Because there could be curbs, constitutional curbs, unconstitutional curbs about our right to read. But if we can never get to it in the first place? If we can never get to, to that creativity that your, your community is, is so interested in expressing. If we can never get to it as libraries, then the censorship conversation is actually moot. You know, how do we ...
Jim Azevedo (49:55):
We're not powerless and we are not powerless, as you have proven.
John Chrastka (49:59):
Yes, [00:50:00] absolutely. It's, it's 25 to 30% of the marketplace. It's a marketplace of ideas. Yes. But let's get, let's, I'd like to, I know plenty of librarians out there who'd like to buy more stuff.
Jim Azevedo (50:13):
Yeah. And I know plenty of people who are in the audience right now who probably have four or five or more library apps on their phones.
John Chrastka (50:19):
That's right.
Jim Azevedo (50:20):
Who ingest a book a week, if not more. Sometimes a book, sometimes it's a book a day. So we're all in this together.
John Chrastka (50:26):
Yep. So ...
Jim Azevedo (50:27):
Let's not ...
John Chrastka (50:28):
If, if the creative economy [00:50:30] is, is, uh, to succeed, we need as low barrier as possible to, to publishing and to reading.
Jim Azevedo (50:38):
Hundred percent, perfect. Behind you all the way. Uh, we are unfortunately at time.
John Chrastka (50:44):
Now we really are.
Jim Azevedo (50:45):
Gosh, yes. So, um, I wanna thank you, John, again, sincerely for spending some time with us today. We really appreciate you and what you're doing. Um, I wanna tell our audience that as a reminder every week, if you could please [00:51:00] like, share, comment, and subscribe to Self-Publishing Insiders, we would appreciate that. So that we can get experts and advocates like John and his organization coming to come and join us. Um, also folks, if you wouldn't mind, be sure to bookmark ddd live.com so you can see every week who our guest is going to be and what the topic of discussion is going to be. And then finally, for those of you who may be dipping your toes into the self-publishing waters for the first time, you can sign [00:51:30] up for a free account at draft2digital.com to learn more about self-publishing and where we will distribute your books into, including lots and lots of libraries that distribute your books into public libraries around the globe. Uh, John, if you wouldn't mind, hang out with me for a few more seconds here. If you can kick back, back in the green room. Um, in the meantime, I'm gonna play a quick, uh, thirty second commercial spot for a D2D print. It's our Print on Demand publishing service.
John Chrastka (51:59):
And to your, your community, [00:52:00] if I can say thank you.
Jim Azevedo (52:01):
Absolutely.
John Chrastka (52:02):
It's been a pleasure.
Jim Azevedo (52:04):
Well, we're so glad you're here, John, and everybody else out there, thanks again for tuning in. Uh, we'll see you again next week. And John, thanks a million to you once more, I really appreciate your time today.
Kevin Tumlinson (52:13):
EBooks are just something about having your words in print, something you can hold in your hands, put on a shelf, sign for a reader. That's why we created D2D Print, a print on demand service that was built for you. We have free beautiful templates to give your book a pro look, [00:52:30] and we can even convert your eBook cover into a full wraparound cover for print. So many options for you and your books. And you can get started right now at draft2digital.com.
(52:39):
Source 1) https://fb.watch/sk_-x6Kifr/
(52:39):
Source 2) https://www.draft2digital.com/blog/library-advocacy-with-everylibrary-ep175/
(52:39):
Source 3) https://www.youtube.com/live/iEHLQE4zbmg
(52:39):
Source 4) https://self-publishing-insiders.simplecast.com/episodes/175-enCE6wZy
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